Zezo forum:

Post by Aussie60 | 2017-10-24 | 20:45:46

Alas, after giving it try I decided to give on this version of VOR.
I have played it with a lot of pleasure the past editions. And despite all the warning flags ahead I decided to give it a try, but after two days sailing, spending already a lot of real money on random cards I found out that there a just three options:
- spend a lot of money and hope to get some useful cards
- not spend a lot of money and accept that unless you need little sleep and do not have a job and family your sailing course is far from optimum, leaving you without any competitiveness most times just zigzagging around
- or, as I have decided, just give up

I am sailing right now in a direct line to Lisabon where I can park my boat at the edge of the finish line. (I could have left the boat alone, but did not want to virtually pollute our oceans with some washed up boat on a beautiful shore :-) )

I leave it up to everyone to decide what to do, but it might be an idea for people who stop sailing to park all the boats in front of Lisabon.

I do want thank Zezo (and other online tool developers in the past) for all the time and efforts to kae helpful tools and provide a platform.

A last word for any official from the real Volvo Ocean race who might read this forum, you might want to consider this;
I think a there is a strong connection between fans of the real Volvo Ocean Race and the people who sail the online VOR-game. And I think that a lot of players leaving the online game will also effect their interest in the real race.
For my it was a always a nice combination of following the real sailing hero's and getting a little bit of that feel sailing online myself.

For now I wish all sailors online succes and fun and for those that also are ending the game; set course tot Lisabon ! (shortest way saves more money wasted )

greeting Aussie60

62 Comments

Post by zezo | 2017-10-24 | 21:34:32

Amen to that, brother ;-)

I feel about the same. For me the only option to continue playing actively at something resembling to the current rules is if:

1) The progressive taxation goes away. 10 cards = 10 tacks.
2) You can choose precisely what nav aid you buy

At that rate I _could_ possibly spend 2 EUR to buy me 5 hours of sleep last night.

Let's say my personal limit for spending is 10 EUR/leg. 5 for the bonus pack and 5 more for occasional nav aid.

But even this is the bare minimum. Making turns cost real money may look like a neat business model to someone, but at any rate it turns the game into a "pay to win" version, and most players are old enough to know better.

Post by SnowPetrel | 2017-10-24 | 22:29:27

Cvetan, that's a pretty good pun: Tax for Tacks! Your part in this has always been inspiring. SailSim has my loyalty, VR not so much.

Aussie60 - You've spoken well, and for many, I expect. SnowPetrel may lock in TWA=0 just off the Lisbon finish. We'll see.

Decent game design should induce a desire to play on.

Post by pmangino | 2017-10-25 | 01:32:27

+1
Princess Marina

Post by pmangino | 2017-10-25 | 01:33:13

Post by zezo | 2017-10-24 | 22:00:41

About the real Volvo/VOR ... I'm afraid that the game matches the mindset of the real race to some extent.

Fun fact: You can't even log into the game version embedded into the official VOR page because it violates various browser security restrictions.

Post by WretchedExcess | 2017-10-24 | 22:03:37

Maybe it was because I was used to it, but I liked the old game a lot more. This whole card thing is just annoying. Last night I probably should have made 8 to ten jibes, and had at least one sail change. But Nooooo! I thought sleep might be a good plan. So I bought 2 jibes and no sail change. That ended up costing me about 1000 places. (sigh) Before the main concern about turning was how much speed am I going to lose and for how long? I thought that was a pretty good way of keeping some one from tacking every 5 minutes.

Post by WretchedExcess | 2017-10-24 | 22:13:02

One other thing I noticed. In the rankings, there seems to only be 62,780 skippers. Isn't this a little on the low side? Seems to me there were somewhere around half a million in the last VOR. Id look for some changes if this is the case. (One can only hope)

Post by zezo | 2017-10-24 | 22:16:49

They've boasted about 250k boats, probably because of the advertisers, but I don't think there were ever more then 100k real persons playing.

Post by Inicio | 2017-10-25 | 02:11:00

The individual card changes now every 10 minutes.
It seems a way to respond to critics and soften the tension. But by the way, you have to connect very often ...

Post by JohnT | 2017-10-25 | 06:01:09

I know I'm 'preaching to the choir' but I fail to understand the logic of why programming multiple course changes at one time should cost exponentially more than programming the same changes separately by logging in for each one?

If you program your course for the next 24hrs, the difference from the original forecast will surely mean you lose compared to someone who updates more frequently, so it's a disadvantage rather than an advantage?

But from the players perspective it's the difference between sailing to a plan that is the best you can do at the time versus knowing that your boat is sailing in the wrong direction and not being able to do anything about it.

Also, since they give us the option to sail a constant TWA, why are they pushing waypoints as the apparently preferred option?

Post by Alexandria | 2017-10-25 | 06:20:44

My take:

To make us buy more cards so that we can get the ones that work with the wind vane -- scheduling cards.

Post by SnowPetrel | 2017-10-25 | 18:46:18

I use heading waypoints, occasionally, to avoid a TWA-induced crash into a coastline.

This VR setup for waypoints (TWA or HDG) is absurd. To adjust them is to lose them, unless I'm mistaken. This is contrary to any kind of navigational practice. I know VR is a for-profit scheme, but there's yet another lost opportunity.

Post by zezo | 2017-10-25 | 07:08:46

Nasty move that one with the cards. Creates compulsive clickers, and once more makes you spend a lot more than you really have to.

I have to be able to get 10 waypoints the moment I need them, not collect them for 3 days at 5x the resale price.

Post by JohnT | 2017-10-25 | 08:37:54

Agreed

Post by Banjo69 | 2017-10-25 | 10:00:05

Yup
cant agree more to all of the above. I will not continue if it is going to be like this. Lost from low 50 to +200 over night in that tack battle out of gibraltar as i could not afford (well didnt want to spend more) buying more random cards

I will however as Zeze states remove the tack tax

PLain greediness and stupidity and as Aussie notes will pro bably loose all interest in VOR altogehter now when not updating myself several times a day

Post by Whitbyweather | 2017-10-25 | 14:05:43

I absolutely loved the old version of the game and made so many friends, but the move to the new interface has been an unmitigated disaster. Many computers will not run the game and even modern machines crash regularly. The gameplay with cards has reduced what was a challenging game to a lottery and is simply designed to take money from the players.
As to the numbers, anyone who logs in just to look is registered as a participant and I think the real numbers are very low. Certainly I only recognise one or two names from the sailors of two years ago.
I was a great supporter of VR and even wrote articles for them on how much the game meant to me as a disabled person, I simply do not understand why they have ruined such a great game. I so wish Zezo could crowd fund an alternative, I know that many disaffected players would be delighted.

Post by zezo | 2017-10-25 | 16:17:12

Yes, it's very resource-intensive. I'm sitting right now on the console of old incarnation of the zezo.org server. It was happily providing router for 500 players, but now struggles to display the winds in the game.

My oldish Thinkpad is even worse without a "real" gpu. Opening the game in Chrome completely freezes the screen. Luckily Firefox limits the GPU resources somehow and is barely usable.

Post by Alexandria | 2017-10-25 | 17:31:01

Hi, Whitby!

My name is Alexandre, skipper of "Alexandria" and "Lotsemann".

Your post reminded me of an English lady with Parkinson. Her name is Joanne, and she is a regular in Sailonline (SOL), as "Rainbowchaser".

Perhaps SOL may be what you are looking for. You can race for free, and there are more than a few tools to help you play and do well (and I know you can, because I remember you from previous VORs). You can go SOTP or router-assisted -- there are resources for both styles of play.

Currently, the only active race is the SWR Leg 1. You can register there and chat with the skippers there, so you can learn more about SOL and SOLers.

I wish you all the best!

Alexandre

Post by Whitbyweather | 2017-10-25 | 19:04:45

Hi Alexandra,
Thank you so much for your kind words,I will certainly take a look at Sailoneline.
I am most sad to have lost so many great friends who have left VR as a result of the game changes, and so wish I could regain contact with them and take them to SOL with me. :-D
Very best wishes,
Chris

Post by 9112 | 2017-10-31 | 12:04:49

Whitbyweather. I just read your article. I fully agree. I do not understand why VR can destroy a good gamesystem, to deliver just trash.. Now this is a bingo, not sailinglike. I believe that the systemmakers are landlubbers, and not sailors or yachtsmen at all. Let`s get back the "good system", that we had before. Now, they only want as much money as possible.. greetings SLOW-MOTION.

Post by zezo | 2017-10-31 | 12:27:04

VR owner supposedly races boats in real life. Not so sure about his developers, or if any one of them has actually tried to play the game themselves.

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-10-25 | 14:18:18

For the next Clipper leg VR asks 14.99 euro. Many players, many legs, many money! (just kidding).

Post by nologo34 | 2017-10-25 | 19:14:48

Hi Aussie60 and others.
I fully agree with you. I'll park my boat close to yours in Lisbon, and leave the game.
I participated in the last three editions for an affordable cost. Right now it is not. Can we imagine the cost in a 20 days leg?

Post by zezo | 2017-10-25 | 19:28:10

40-50 EUR for a 20 day leg at the current rate. 20 EUR "promo pack" and then a lot of cards.

There were times when the entire 9-month VOR was 20 EUR AND they were giving away XC70, worth 50K

Post by nologo34 | 2017-10-25 | 20:11:54

Exactly. I do not remember exactly, but the Full Pack (including everyting) in last VOR edition costed around 20 EUR. following the current scheme the cost can be 500 EUR. Too much for me.

Post by Aussie60 | 2017-10-25 | 19:33:20

Hi nologo34 and others, you are welcome to join me for a virtual glass of porto and a nice plate of seafood in the port of Lisabon, the weather is nice here :-)
There is room for more boats, remember once in the port to put your TWA=0 or your boat will sail away :-)

PS if you look on my boat deck you will find 15 Helpcards, 17 Weather cards and 8 Stealth cards...totally useless, but maybe we can create a nice cardgame of them...
the first online sailing cardgame...lol

In a way it is sad it has to end like this, but I intend to make the best and fun of it.

greetz Aussie

Post by blkhd48 | 2017-10-25 | 20:21:17

Hi Aussie,
On my way. Was going to pop into Gib for a pint, but a glass of port in Lisbon seems a much better idea.
Although I agree entirely with your comments about the changes, the final straw for me was finishing in 11th place in the Clipper, going aground after crossing the finish line and on moving the boat being dropped to 140 th position. Sent Support screenshot showing my position as finished in 11th position, another, showing my boat aground completely inside the finishing circle. After multiple emails I finally got a reply admitting it was their fault but that they would not reinstate my 11 th position as it would 'PENALIZE THE OTHER PLAYERS'
I thought it was meant to be a race , not a rally. In a race, the one most important thing to get right is the results. If they can't do that then there is no point in racing.
So.... see you in Lisbon.
Dean blkhd48

Post by Alexandria | 2017-10-26 | 04:44:36

So that's how I gained one place...

I certainly do not mind going back to 12th place, if this is the right thing to do -- and it looks like it is.

Post by Aussie60 | 2017-10-25 | 19:36:44

and zezo I remember those gold old days...you could even win a trip to one of the port in the real VOR !!!

Maybe we can all save up the money not spent and buy our own real collective Volvo Ocean V65 and enter the race in 3 years. I already got a name for the boat: ZEZO

Post by Breaksea | 2017-11-01 | 10:20:50

Hi Aussie60,

I like the idea ..and the name. I have sailed a leg on a 2012 VO70 out of Lisbon this year, and I am ready to join you on a V065. I will have some cash to spend as I have decided to quite VR as of leg 2. I just saw the price of leg 2 and with all the 'bad' changes in the latest version it has tripped my frustration.. Game Over !

I wish you and all your remaining competitors a good race. Maybe see you in a new virtual water world.

Breaksea (NL)

Thanks to ZEZO for facilitating this forum ..and tooling

Post by Thistle1678 | 2017-11-01 | 12:48:35

For the low, low price of 995,000 this dream could be real! http://www.berthon.co.uk/yachts-for-sale/sca-racing-sailboat-volvo-ocean-65-242349/

Post by zezo | 2017-11-01 | 14:32:51

Some of the 70s should also be available, at even lower price ;-)

Post by Breaksea | 2017-11-02 | 09:12:10

There are only 3 VO70's left (in sailing conditions). The Sanya, old boat of Bouwe Bekking, is located in the Netherlands. If you want to experience the 'real thing' have a look at https://www.vo70sailing.nl/home.html

Post by andrel | 2017-11-01 | 13:07:10

Hi, Aussie60 I guess it is Down Under I like so much. I am from beautiful amber sea (Baltic) sailing addicted city Riga. You are so right about the close connection between Volvo Ocean Race and Virtual Regatta regarding fans and that it could even financially impact stopover business at least. I visited live last edition event in Gothenburg Sweden. It was an unforgettable week where along with free events numbers of different commercial events as well. The fewer people will participate in the VG, the less interest, and real visitors will be in the Cape Town, Melbourne, Hong Kong, Auckland, Itajai and in remaining beautiful cities and marinas.No need to mention about consequences.
andrel
Latvia

Post by SailorSam | 2017-11-01 | 13:34:58

Aussie 60 if I can offer a little ditty to be sung with your next beer to the tune of Wild Rover (with apologies to our Irish friends and the gods of plagiarism)

I've been a wild sailor for many a year
And I've spent all my money on whiskey and beer
And now I'm returning with Euro in great store
And I never will sail the wild waters no more

And it's no, nay, never
No, nay, never, no more
And I'll sail the wild waters
No never, no more

I went to the VR I used to frequent
And I told the game maker my money was spent
I asked them for credit, they answered me, "Nay"
Saying, "Custom like yours, we can have any day"

And it's no, nay, never
No, nay, never, no more
And I'll sail the wild waters
No never, no more

I took from my pocket ten Euros bright
And the game maker's eyes opened wide with delight
They said, "We have hull polish and cards of the best
And the words that we told you were only in jest"

And it's no, nay, never......

Post by JohnT | 2017-11-03 | 02:59:16

now that is worth a lot more than one virtual beer :)

Post by pmangino | 2017-11-01 | 20:49:49

The Golden Days of VR are gone...
I will not throw away my money. The price for the Full Options Package is exaggeratedly high and it is not a matter of having the money or not, its a matter of basic principles.
I will stick with the basic resources to sail my boat at the best of my abilities.
Thank you Cvetan for all your help during so many years of happy sailing.

Post by Journeyman27 | 2017-11-02 | 08:59:54

Agree completely. The cost is extortionate now. I�m might start with basic options and continue until I get so frustrated that I can�t be bothered with it anymore.

Post by JohnT | 2017-11-02 | 17:49:41

Another point made on the VR forum (a somewhat heated discussion in French), is that there is no discount for buying all the options with credits: only for paying with new money...

Post by mcmgj | 2017-11-02 | 20:34:38

Yes, and the price for "credits" is outlawed, because with the virtual money, the exchange with the Euro must be fixed, and in August you got 26000 "credits" with � 99.99 and now you get only 21,600 "credits" !!!

Post by Charlie2010 | 2017-11-03 | 19:36:59

You have to be quick. Now the price for 21600 is 104,99 and tomorrow it will be 109,99.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-03 | 19:44:21

Still 99 here. Are you on a phone/app?

Post by Charlie2010 | 2017-11-03 | 20:37:14

On my phone the current rate or 21600 is 104,99 and on my PC the rate is still 99,99......

Post by zezo | 2017-11-03 | 20:44:45

It's been like this for a while, or maybe for a long time. The play stores probably take a bigger cut than paypal/credit card companies.

Last time I've read about it it was like 30% cut for the stores.

PayPal/credit cards are like 30c+4%/transaction, but that depends on a lot of things. And then 30% on a $1 iTunes purchase can be cheaper then the CC fixed fee because Apple aggregate the transfers. It's a weird world.

Post by YourMomSA | 2017-11-03 | 23:00:24

Wow. Amazing. I just confirmed... 21,600 is 89.99 Euros on my iPhone and 99.99 Euros on my iMac. If it's always been that way, I wish I had noticed a couple years ago (because I've bought the max 2-3 times in the last 2 years). I haven't bought credits since the new version came out, but I guess if I ever decide to do so, I'll need to shop several devices to find the best price. That's a significant difference!

The "discount full pack" prices also differ. TJV is 17.99 on my iPhone and 19.99 on my iMac.

But... where are people seeing 104.99 for 21,600? Is that on Android or something? Or are the prices different regionally? Can we rank the order of costs, or is it variable by event, region, etc? Is it (from lowest to highest cost)... iPhone, then desktop computers of all kinds, then Android worst?

Post by zezo | 2017-11-03 | 23:38:22

You set different prices for different countries/currencies in the app/play stores, and the $ exchange rate seems to be working in your favor.

I think that few days ago the price for one of the races was higher in the Android app than in the web interface (equivalent of 13 EUR vs 10) but I may be wrong.

They are roughly equal now, with the official BGN exchange rate at 1.96 full pack is 199.99.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-03 | 23:41:36

There is also 20% VAT for EU customers, which you (as US citizen, I suppose) may not be paying in some cases. It's quite complicated.

Charlie seems to be somewhere in the Netherlands.

Post by pmangino | 2017-11-04 | 01:37:29

Question: If I buy the options at the App Store with my mobil, the same will work in my Home PC Windows 10..?
Thanks,

Post by YourMomSA | 2017-11-04 | 02:04:43

Yes. The credits go with the ID not the device. As far as I know, the prices, in credits, for each item are the same on all devices. It appears that the variance is in the real money required to buy credits (or to buy full option packs). It would appear that the best move would be to buy a pile of credits on an iPhone in the US or another country without VAT taxes... and then spend them on whatever device you want, wherever.

That assumes you're willing to buy credits for the new version. I'm still burning through my balance of old credits. But I'm getting low and nearing needing to make a decision about whether or not to continue playing. I'm leaning toward continuing Clipper and VOR as long as I'm still doing ok overall in them, and dropping everything else (including the #1 ranking as a result). I'm not likely to do TJV, and it's Category 3, so whoever in the top 50 or so pays the steep price to win it will likely pass me in the rankings. The game simply isn't as fun when every maneuver costs cards (= credits = money), so even if I stick around for the rest of Clipper and VOR, I'll probably finally quit after that. I'm still holding out hope that they'll make the "full options pack" price include "unlimited programmation and waypoints". If they did that, without seriously increasing the full option price, I'd suddenly view VRO3 as superior to VRO1 and VRO2.

Post by pmangino | 2017-11-04 | 03:12:03

Thank for your response YourMomSA.
In my iphone7 and my ipad the cost in real money is 25% off compared with the prices in my PC.
I know you are dissapointed, so am I...
This is totally confusing...
Princess Marina

Post by achphil | 2017-11-03 | 23:09:28

Bonjour,
21600 points pour 99,99 sous android et avec chrome

Post by langserud | 2017-11-05 | 15:31:14

As some small kind of protest i entered a guest boat sailed it back to the starting point , set wind angle to 0 and left it there. Main boat (Mapleleaf) sails on... for now...

Post by langserud | 2017-11-05 | 17:27:24

It's funny... This position should have me dead last? But I'm holding position 42299, but there are 83118 skippers sailing?

Post by Toppen | 2017-11-05 | 18:28:19

There isn't 83118 starting this leg... that number is probaby the total registred players including those starting leg 1

Post by WretchedExess | 2017-11-05 | 18:38:51

In the last addition of the VOR I seem to remember the numbers in the hundreds of thousands. The only one that knows the true is super.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-05 | 18:58:52

Question is the number of paying players.

Too early to say for the VOR, but in TJV I'm around position 1000 with a single Code 0 which currently goes unused. Go figure.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-06 | 08:17:33

Second boat, left unattended until now is ranked 45000 in VOR

Post by ogin8 | 2017-11-06 | 20:39:08

TJV additional 24 hrs for Full Options with 40% discount. Believe it is very significant sign that business model doesn't work.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-06 | 21:48:24

It's plain stupid decision. If you keep the options open right after the start someone could still buy them because they missed the deadline or something.

24 hours later there is no option that will make you see your name in the top 100 list.

Post by Utstein | 2017-11-06 | 22:19:46

Post by Patrice | 2017-11-07 | 07:12:19

Virtual regata est devenu une pompe � fric....

Post by zezo | 2017-11-07 | 08:20:37

Please keep the thread constructive. Or wait for the VR forum to reopen and go there to complain. Personally, I don't see what more can be said.