Zezo forum:

Post by jacenty67 | 2018-06-19 | 09:31:46

Hi all!

Leg10 is closed but I'm surprised on OverAll ranking.

Before the start another Polish VR sailor "Leszek2011", had advantage on me 708 points, and take�a lead in Polish Group.

He didn't participate in Leg10 so he should get ZERO points.

I ended Leg10 on a 66th position and get 846 points, so now I should take a�lead, but VR ranking says - Leszek2011 have 377 points advantage and he is a leader in Polish OverAll ranking (6 best races to count).

How is it possible???

Regards

Jacek

26 Comments

Post by Flying Phil | 2018-06-19 | 10:14:58

Hi,
if you did more than 6 legs, they keep the 6 best. So they add 846 points and remove the points of your worst leg

Post by jacenty67 | 2018-06-19 | 10:41:46

It's clear for me Phil, but Leszek2011 didn't participate in last leg and get over 1300 points for free.
Another question - sum of VSR points in all legs I Participate (6385) is much lower then sum of points in OverAll ranking (8290)

How do they counting it?

Post by YourMomSA | 2018-06-19 | 12:13:06

I can't explain Leszek2011's score going up without doing the leg. My best guess is that maybe you looked at his score before Leg 9 actually closed, and those points came when Leg 9 closed... The overall ranking doesn't update until the leg actually closes.

But I think this thread explains why your sum of VSR points is less than your score in overall ranking:

http://zezo.org/forum.pl?tid=6252

Your VSR points in each event are reduced a little based on your VSR level. I guess so that newer players can move toward Level 14 faster before slowing down. Your VOR overall ranking is not impacted by your VSR level. That should be the difference. (Also note that the calculation was different for Legs 1 and 2).

Post by jacenty67 | 2018-06-19 | 12:56:18

THX YM
I've checked score before LEG10 start (LEG9 should be closed) and then after closing LEG10.
Think it's another bug from VR.

I'm on level 14, position 237, Leszek is on level 13, but it doesn't change anything.

Post by YourMomSA | 2018-06-19 | 13:41:52

If there's a bug, it isn't impacting everyone. I have calculated my "VOR Overall" scores, using the formulas from thread 6252, for every Volvo (and Clipper) leg in my history, and my totals match perfectly (9846 for my best 6 Volvo legs, and 16824 for my Clipper total through Leg 10). Clipper Leg 11 isn't closed yet, so its points aren't in the Clipper overall ranking yet.

So... you can do the same if you want to check to see if your total is correct.

If you know Leszek, you could ask him which legs he completed and where he finished in each, and then could run the same calculations. Unfortunately, since VR doesn't let us all see historical results of closed events anymore, there's no way you can check unless you ask.

There IS some poor decisionmaking from VR on the overall ranking approach. They had a different exponent in the first two races of both events, causing anything other than a win to be much more harshly diminished in those events than in subsequent legs (my 51 in Volvo Leg 2 is worth a lot less than my 359 in Leg 4, even though both are Category 4, for example). Additionally, having different categories for different legs is a problem with throwouts involved (with Leg 11 being Category 6, I need to finish 2nd or better for it to be worth more than my 180th in Leg 9, for example). Neither of these issues would be a major problem if we didn't have throwouts. But with throwouts, it means Legs 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9 are worth far more than the other legs (unless you were in the top 5 or so in Leg 2). It means, for example, that my flyer in Leg 6, resulting in a finish of 12,627 was a killer for my chances at a good overall result. It isn't a big deal for me because I haven't been doing well enough for a top-10 overall result anyway, but I'm sure it is very frustrating for competitors like Sideshow. But... that's a problem in design, not a bug.

Post by zezo | 2018-06-20 | 08:20:33

Using a sum of the VSR points in a multi-leg race is a bad idea from the start, but mixing it with different VSR levels and discards can make it a nightmare. The VSR5 race can be a discard even if you finished in the first place.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-20 | 17:46:55

dropping 4 out of 10 legs is a bit too much. and if you want to win the general, you have to start with a new boat that is lowest level ;) leg 10 is useless to pay money for

Post by YourMomSA | 2018-06-20 | 17:50:14

The reduction in points by VSR level isn't applied to the scores that are placed into the VOR and Clipper Overall standings. Your overall standing will be the same regardless of whether you started at VSR1 or VSR14. The reduction in points only applies in the VSR rankings.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-20 | 17:54:08

okay, otherwise you would indeed have start in a brandnew boat in stead of reusing the good old VOR65

Post by theo | 2018-06-20 | 19:04:35

hello guys
just to make it clear, you mean no mutter the vsr nr each of the volvo legs has(1,2,6 ..whatever), it does NOT effect the volvo ranking list. Did I get it right? and Is it the same with Clipper ranking list?

Post by YourMomSA | 2018-06-20 | 19:49:49

Sorry, no.

The thread I linked above explains it all in great detail, and provides the formulas you can use to calculate the points.

The VSR Category of each Leg is VERY important. It has a major impact on the value of your overall score in both VOR and Clipper. So much that anyone who has done all of the Category 4 legs (2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 9) is unlikely to put up a score in Leg 11 that will matter, because Leg 11 is Category 6 and only your best 6 scores count.

For example...
- My 4th best score is from Leg 4. I got 1103 points for finishing 359th in a Category 4 leg.
- My 6th best score is from Leg 10. I got 894 points for finishing 164th in a Category 5 leg. Fewer points for a better position, because it's Cat 5.
- For me to beat 894 points in Category 6 Leg 11, I need to finish 10th or better. For me to beat the same 1103 score that I got for finishing 359th in a Category 4 leg, I would need to finish 4th or better in Leg 11.

The point I was making in response to UM came from calculations of VSR Ranking scores, not VOR and Clipper Overall Standings scores. In the VSR Rankings, you get fewer points added to your total if you're at a higher Level. Presumably to help the newest competitors to be able to catch up to the Level 14 competitors in the rankings. UM was concerned that this reduction in score might also be applied to your VOR Overall and Clipper Overall standings, such that being a new Level 1 boat would be an advantage. I was responding to say that concern is not actually an issue.

So... The Race Category DOES produce a BIG impact on both your VSR ranking and your VOR and Clipper Overall Standings, whereas your VSR Level only has an impact on each race's contribution to your VSR Ranking score.

Anyway... for anyone particularly interested in the topic, I strongly recommend reading thread 6252. The guys who reverse-engineered the formula did a great job to figure it out and to publish it. They also published it in a VR forum.

Post by Mark1616 | 2018-06-24 | 20:34:44

Hi,
I'm sorry if I am missing something obvious, but where can I see the overall vVOR classification?
Thanks

Post by zezo | 2018-06-24 | 20:35:58

You are not missing anything. VR are missing a lot of obvious things.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-25 | 08:14:59

it was there untill the penultimate leg was removed from the game. Handy-VR again ...

If they would have communicated properly that leg 11 was a dummy leg in VOR, it would have cost them a lot of money. Or rephrased, they stole money from thos players that purchased full pack hoping to improve their overall ranking ...

I've made a request to VOR to select a different virtual regatta provider next race. VR sucks big time.

Post by WaterHammer | 2018-06-25 | 12:44:55

It was not even there as in the ranking page of leg 10 the race score was only up till leg 9.

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2018-06-25 | 14:44:43

No problem fellas! I sent an e-mail to Dear Jessicabot, explaning that they need to count Leg 11 in the final results and that they need to publish the final results. I am sure these will happen any minute now, as I already received an e-mail:

Hello!

Our team has received your message and will answer it as soon as they can.

See you soon,

The Virtual Regatta Team

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-25 | 18:30:50

Hello [FIRST_NAME],

Thank you for your message.

Please keep in mind that this had been notified in an in-game info at the beginning of the game last year.

It's important to regularly have a look at the message icon on the game main screen, there is a lot of info that can be found there! Sadly, for display capacities reasons, all those news cannot be kept indefinitely in the news stack.

Specifically, we'd like to point out that with the info of Leg 11 getting ready to start it is written in the article the following: "It's long-term racing, where only 6 of your best results will be taken into account for the final standings, which will be revealed in Gothenburg at the end of Leg 10."

If you have other questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to let us know.

Best regards,
Jessicabot

Post by ColdSnap | 2018-06-25 | 18:26:13

Is there a way to see your position in the overall regatta for the VOR? I've looked through the program and can't see it anywhere. I expected there would be a similar ranking screen like they have for an individual leg where you can see your ranking by country, province, city, club, etc.

Thanks!

Post by ColdSnap | 2018-06-25 | 18:37:34

I see my question was already asked earlier. Sorry for the duplication.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-25 | 18:48:02

not so strange that you ask the question. except for VR. they are highly surprised that you want to see your final ranking after finishing the last leg. for them it is more logic to show it at the penultimate leg and after that hide it. money is inda pocket

Post by YourMomSA | 2018-06-25 | 19:30:33

My feeling is that they don't realize people would care about anything other than who won the prizes. For VOR, there was a prize no one knew about until the end (or at least I didn't know about it)... a trip to The Hague for the finish! But of course, logistically, that had to be decided based on the finish of the prior leg. And it makes sense for that prize to have been defined that way... but instead of being clear up front about the existence of that prize and how it could be earned, it was announced hastily just before the prior leg... and at that point, it was only clear that the prize would be earned that way... not the overall VVOR Winner title. My best guess is that they then decided that if they were going to have someone in The Hague as the Overall Winner of the VVOR, then they should close the scoring rather than having an additional leg after that. So they did that, again without explanation or communication. For the Clipper, I think there is also a prize for first place, but I don't think the prize coincides with the finish. (I remember hearing months ago that the overall winner would win a trip to attend a Clipper training session somewhere for the next edition, or something like that). So again, the VR assumption is that all anyone cares about is who wins the prize.

Which is sad for them, because the truth is that they could earn more money by keeping as many people as possible interested in their individual positions in the overall standings. I mean... if the person in 38th is doing extra full pack races to try to get to 33rd, that's more revenue. If the person in second place in the national rankings for Thailand pays for full packs to try to get to first, or if the person in third place in the London city rankings pays for full packs to try to move up a spot or two, that's all revenue. So... I really don't think the choices about how they are handling the overall rankings, and the poor communication around that, are meant as a "bait and switch" type cash grab... They'd be making more money by handling it better. I think it's just the usual late, reactive decionsmaking combined with the usual poor communication.

FWIW... Personally, my occasional interactions with Jessica have been positive. While I totally respect the frustration many of us have had with VR's approach, I'd like to recommend not personally taking it out on Jessica. Like many people in Customer Service, she is only allowed to respond in ways that her management authorizes her to respond. So... in certain situations, particularly the scenarios that result in large volumes of angry users, she is required to provide a bot-like form-letter response. But... I feel bad for her in those situations. I can't imagine having her job. There must be some awful days.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-25 | 20:04:29

I only get copy/paste blabla answers, hence the presumption she's not an employee but a bot.

I agree they waste tons of potential revenue with their total lack of customer communication, any form of transparancy as well as with their lack of customer support and laggy bug fixed. I mean, do you really believe they play the game themselves with such a crappy game interface?

Take any point-and-shoot game: you kill the enemy in the game interface, move on to the next enemy only to see (a minute or so later) your character moved to the killed enemy place and the message 'game over appears' while your opponent resurrects like a zombie. would any of the kids play it more than once?

Post by zezo | 2018-06-25 | 20:18:27

Besides, it's a lot cheaper to get someone from Belgium to Den Haag, than someone from say, US or AUS. Just saying.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-25 | 20:24:41

someone from Holland is even cheaper as most VR players where there anyway ;)

Post by zezo | 2018-06-25 | 20:57:41

Ooops. I was going to say that Antwerp is closer than, let's say, Groningen. But then I realized I'd lost track and had to check the venerable News Button. So the winner is actually from Sweden. And probably had to sign an agreement not to post here in order to get his prize.

P.S. In case it's not obvious. I'm not mocking the winner. I'm mocking VR. Kudos to Martin for the effort.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2018-06-25 | 21:04:05

same from my side, kudo's to Martin for winning all those legs as well as the general (after 9 sailed legs with 6 or 5 dropped results) and indeed Antwerp is much closer to The Hague than Groningen!