Zezo forum:

Post by tabasco2 | 2020-10-05 | 14:34:04

There are no more cards in the game?
Today the "cards" option disappeared from the menu.

44 Comments

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-10-05 | 14:44:08

Which race? If NY-SF, it's because the race ended. If it's a different race, did you get the Full Pack? Cards are irrelevant with Full Pack.

But... if it's an active race and you don't have Full Pack, I don't have any other guesses. It would be something to post in the VR forum and/or send to their support team.

Post by tabasco2 | 2020-10-05 | 14:54:31

No, I am in the Vendee globe, I do not use a full pack, (I am a "no money sailor") and the use of "cards" does not appear in the options and neither does the time record to obtain them. Also changed the home screen of the game. (starts with option 3d)

Post by Hardtack | 2020-10-05 | 15:00:44

Same here. No more cards, 3d screen opens when entering a race.

Furthermore, if you click on a bunch of overlapping boats, a selection popup with the boat names is now displayed.

Post by misterdjul | 2020-10-05 | 16:09:15

I think all options are free for Vend�e race.
You can program course changes, or add waypoints.

Post by zezo | 2020-10-05 | 16:12:02

The game has been running in some kind of limp mode almost every afternoon recently. No other boats/tracks/ranking etc.

Post by Velaska | 2020-10-05 | 16:46:10

they made a bit of changes to the user interface, entering the race in the 3d view is really a non-sense. The programming interface changed, now you can undo your programming variations as when you work with free rudder. Nice the possibility to select the boat you wanna look at if you click on a group of boats. For me it will take a bit of time to understand if this is for the better or no, as always when there are changes.

Post by KKPR | 2020-10-05 | 17:48:24

I didn't like the way of programming headings ... each time you program one heading
, the dashboard disapears and you have to call it again in the expert button ..

Post by Velaska | 2020-10-05 | 18:12:48

you re right, it seems buggy
And... the cards are gone, I only have two free programming/waypoints. Impossible to play without paying, at least if you need to sleep sometime.

Post by fpernett | 2020-10-05 | 21:00:51

It is only on the web version. On the iPad works the same

Post by karriv | 2020-10-05 | 21:24:54

Worry not, it's only a matter of time for them to roll-out the Improvements� to other platforms.

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-10-05 | 21:46:07

If they'd publish details in advance to tell us what was changing and when, it might not be so bad. It's rolling out a beta version with no warning or explanation that really irritates me.

Post by tabasco2 | 2020-10-05 | 22:01:11

Automatic sails, only 12 hs..... :(

Post by BooBill | 2020-10-05 | 22:58:48

So, next nice "improvement"

Before I left to play golf this afternoon I set programs to cover the period. Just when I'm finishing up I get a message from one of my teammates. Seems VR had added an extra program point to head straight north. Checking the log, that program instruction was issued after I had left.

This is all making it very unlikely I do La Mauricienne. Definitely not doing a race if I can't buy all the program points I need with credits and especially if they add ones I didn't program.

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-10-06 | 15:00:45

I'm not doing the prologue or La Mauricienne. Can someone summarize the impacts of this change? From what I can see here and in the multiple VR threads...

-You enter the game in 3D mode?
-You can only schedule 2 programmations or waypoints rather than 9?
-What if you have Full Pack? (And, if anyone has been paying for VIP, what if you have that?)
-Cards are gone? So you can freely schedule, but with a max per above?
-There were some complaints in the VR forum about how programmations get confirmed, and the dashboard being lost after each confirmation... I'm not sure what they're talking about there.
-Autosails can only be turned on for 12 hours at a time? True for full pack also?

What else? Any idea what Credits are for now, if not for cards? I guess they're still used for purchasing boat upgrades?

They haven't updated the VR Offshore Help Center's FAQ (at least not in English). Oddly, though, the relevant topics all show as having been updated in the last few days. I'm not sure why they would have been updating content that's now obsolete. Very confusing.

Post by zezo | 2020-10-06 | 15:44:43

So VR have closed the test cycle. No more stupid cards.

Just the average race is about 2 times more expensive than few years ago, and if the number of free programmings is limited, it's finally become "pay to play".

Post by lorenzo | 2020-10-06 | 17:57:12

exactly, if in free mode max 2 programming or waypoints, rounding an island during night is impossible as well as a jibe or tack. I hope they will raise at least to 4

Post by Velaska | 2020-10-06 | 17:01:57

Hi YM,
for what I can see now, having one boat on FP and another one without

-You enter the game in 3D mode?
Yes, this i squite annoying to me, just lost time befor being able to manage your boat. You can exit the 3D with a click a a little map showing on the left of the screen.

-You can only schedule 2 programmations or waypoints rather than 9?
Correct, if no FP

-What if you have Full Pack? (And, if anyone has been paying for VIP, what if you have that?)
Having payed you remain with 9 (VIP 15) programming buttons.

-Cards are gone? So you can freely schedule, but with a max per above?
Yes, cards vanished

-There were some complaints in the VR forum about how programmations get confirmed, and the dashboard being lost after each confirmation... I'm not sure what they're talking about there.
There is a little difference e in the UI,it's a bit annoying, but I think this is something for us just to get used to.

-Autosails can only be turned on for 12 hours at a time? True for full pack also?
Seems so, not sure 100% because I still have Auto Sail many hours already payed for

What else? Any idea what Credits are for now, if not for cards? I guess they're still used for purchasing boat upgrades?
Yes, I see no other use for the credis

cheers
Vela

Post by zezo | 2020-10-06 | 19:08:06

First, the track. Then the 3D mode. I guess it's all motivated by the fact they have a race condition when first loading winds, so those distractions just add delay and chance for the other data to load. Instead of solving the problem they have been working around it.

Post by ogin8 | 2020-10-07 | 16:45:57

General rules to solve the problem:

1. We have a problem - let's drink a bottle of wine and hope that the problem will disappear.
2. After w bottle, if problem still persist. Let's drink another bottle (To be repeated numerous times).
3. After couple of bottles - all problems disappear. Always! :)
4. Next day the and if the problem is not solved. This problem can not be solved that way. Let�s try make a love.

Post by zezo | 2020-10-06 | 19:05:05

Hell, it could be so simple. Sell the pro sails for $5/10/20 whatever, leave everything else same for everyone, make auto sails a toggle, make everyone happy.

-> Profit

But no, they just have to frustrate everybody and lose half their players every 2 years or so.

Post by lorenzo | 2020-10-06 | 19:36:03

I couldn't agree more
The basic business case for games is �collect as much user as you can and then have a % of them paying�
So make the game accessible and fun for all but winning position needs payment
Users in VR soon realizes that to win they need to:
1-Pay
2-Invest time

Latest changes has increased profit? I do not believe so because the increased price will discourage those paying users that are price sensitive
Will bring more users to pay because they reduced the waypoints? Nope, because that people already knows that the big key factor for winning is investing time which if they haven�t yet, they will not certainly start doing now
Result: there will just less people playing free (therefore reducing the base) because they will ground or not be able to tack during night. And because they will get annoyed of idiot 3d view at start

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-10-06 | 19:47:03

Thanks, Vela, for the detailed summary! At least the Full Pack still has 9, so I guess if you're going FP, the changes are minor.

Regarding Cvetan's comments... Presumably they're looking at 500,000+ users for Vendee, many of whom will be playing for the first time, most of whom will be playing for free... and they're trying to make it work in a way that will draw as many of those new players as possible into playing (and paying) in later races.

Frustrating for users who know the existing interface, particularly without any communication to explain the changes... But... Imagine if you were totally new to the game, seeing it for the first time, and just trying to get your IMOCA around the world in 200,006th place. You'd probably like the game more with no cards than with cards... And you'd probably be able to achieve your goal with two programmations at a time. And if you decide to try more races, maybe you'd buy Full Packs to get more. You'd be blissfully unaware that the annoying card game ever existed.

If they made it possible to spend credits to buy a third, fourth, etc, slot for programmations and waypoints, up to a max of 9, then this new approach would actually be pretty good, aside form the forced 3D.

Post by zezo | 2020-10-06 | 20:26:22

There are nowhere near 500k players. 100k max for French races, 150k for the VOR, which gathers more international audience. 50% of those are DNF boats that won't bother paying or even playing at all very much.

The struggle is for 2000-5000-10000-20000 paying customers.

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-10-06 | 22:50:17

My bad. I remembered too large a number from 2016. It looks like they had 233,000 Vendee entries in 2016. You're also correct that a large fraction won't find it interesting enough to finish. I guess my point was simply that they must believe these changes will increase the number of those who become new long-term paying customers.

It seems that for Full Pack racers, the changes are minimal. For non-FP users, in any situation where they don't need more than 2 programmations or waypoints, it's actually an improvement because you don't have to deal with the cards anymore. So... thinking about a race like Vendee... Most of the time, it won't hurt those users. Large parts of that race will have runs of many hours without a course change. The real negative will be in coastal races for non-FP racers. If the new settings stay as they are, those races would be very hard to compete in without a Full Pack.

Post by karriv | 2020-10-07 | 05:43:11

Quite logical, make VG quite playable for the new comer, get new players on the hook and paying for the mass of the races. From the business perspective, this makes way more sense than their earlier approaches.

Post by holydonkey | 2020-10-06 | 20:21:05

i have the same thing on computer but on the app on smartphone everithing wors like before...

Post by zezo | 2020-10-06 | 20:27:22

It takes a bit more time to upgrade the apps. The web version can be upgraded in an instant (but then it overloads the servers because a lot of cached data is discarded).

Post by Velaska | 2020-10-06 | 21:58:51

is this the reason of the funny "do not panic" massages of the last week ?!?
:))))

Post by Velaska | 2020-10-06 | 21:58:51

Post by tabasco2 | 2020-10-06 | 22:42:12

I just finished the regatta (Vendee Globe), the fireworks or the result do not even appear to acquire the credits earned ... Just a view with my boat at the finish point ...

Post by rowie | 2020-10-06 | 22:51:21

Same for all I think. On a bright note, we all get to be 1st as apparently we all finished at exactly the same time!!

Post by BooBill | 2020-10-06 | 23:01:51

Tobasco, login on your phone or tablet, that's how I got my credits. Works fine there.

My conclusion to all this, is if you want to do "free" race on credits, you'd have to get a month of VIP in order to get a managable number of program points. So, basically, if you want to be competitive, there's no way to do it for free, even for one race.

If you are a Rothschild or something and are just happy to pay for the FP for every race then the only use for credits would be for skins. Maybe they should offer some really premium skins designed by Prada or something.

Post by tabasco2 | 2020-10-07 | 00:21:26

Thank you BooBill, works great!!!

Post by zezo | 2020-10-07 | 06:26:26

Disable your phone's app auto update then, because the current app is exactly the same as the buggy web UI.

Post by PML | 2020-10-07 | 07:41:52

Is there a way to go back to the previous version of the app once it has been automatically updated ?

Post by zezo | 2020-10-07 | 09:12:46

It's possible on Android, if you happen to have the old apk available. It can be backed up from another phone running the previous version, and there are also archives with old apks on the net.

For iDevices you probably need a jailbreak.

Post by PML | 2020-10-07 | 09:46:11

Thanks Cvetan. I managed to find the apk file of the 4.1.3 version of the app on a website, install it on my Android-run phone, and eventually collect my cards / ranking credits for the Vend�e Globe Prologue race.

Post by Caledonia | 2020-10-07 | 08:35:58

Being a non French speaking Kiwi (NZer) I never go on the VR forum because of the language difficulty and the time zone difference, so I find these comments very interesting.
I have been surprised by VR's lack of warning of these changes and the problems with access to the race (Prologue) in the last 48 hours. It was like sailing in "stealth mode" option, as in the earlier days of VR. Surely they could have just put something on the news page. Or better still could they have avoided doing it mid race.

Anyway my take on it is that yes perhaps more players will find the sailing simpler without the cards but will they pay for the FP's? I suggest the answer is probably no, and if they do then perhaps like me they may choose to sail fewer races. And certainly they will discover the shore type races will be a nonsense without the FP, and avoid them.

I cannot see how VR will increase their revenue from these changes. It seems they always attempt to fix things that aren't broken, and don't fix the things that are broken. And not to mention the new 3D intro, crazy.

I am a long standing player pre dating VR's involvement/ownership, and sadly now will probably limit the number of races I sail.
For the record I sail as Barquerme, and not Caledonia. (I can't change my login).

Post by BooBill | 2020-10-07 | 12:09:06

Installing the Google Translate Chrome extension gets you past the language barrier pretty easily. When I read the forum it just automatically all comes up in English. Acronyms are still a bit of challenge. The French will refer to Autosail as VA (Voile Automatique) rather than AS for instance. But you can figure it out without to much effort.

Now, what would be really cool is if Dashboard scooped up all the in game messages so we could use the translator in the browser. Noting your other comment about unsolicited fan mail Barqurme, I don't know about you, but 90% of my fan mail is in French. Maybe that makes me a bad Canadian if I need a bit of help with French sometimes.

Post by zezo | 2020-10-07 | 13:03:42

You can find the messages in the dashboard raw log. A bit ugly, but at least you can copy the text. Looks like this:

"msgs":[{"ts":1.548771499319E12,"sender":"59d0a1bab395b292ed633de4","text":"You're stranded"}

Post by BooBill | 2020-10-07 | 13:28:12

Great tip! Thanks Cvetan.

"Vous �tes coinc�," had already been added to my vocabulary BTW 😭

Post by Adrien2008 | 2020-10-07 | 13:48:36

Literally in french : you are cornered

Post by Hardtack | 2020-10-07 | 15:58:27

Found another interesting feature: You can't get rid of your old personal messages, but you can get rid of your credits, one by one, for only 19,99� each: