Zezo forum:

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-13 | 00:39:42

I want to add a few more boats to my screen that are going west. Any suggestions of boats who are west and south. I have a few of the obvious ones, Toppen Sideshow and Big Bird. tia.

181 Comments

Post by SnowPetrel | 2017-11-13 | 02:02:23

SnowPetrel is west, but 10 nm behind your leaders. What is you boat name?

Post by Quisnix | 2017-11-16 | 19:54:42

Hi Nick,

I'm 190NM east of sideshow. boat: Quisnix

Post by nsp | 2017-11-13 | 05:15:02

the one for you to check is Iona29

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-13 | 05:47:25

Cool, he is a long way south. To my east. @snowpetral my boat is called PWG-PWE

Post by SnowPetrel | 2017-11-14 | 02:44:56

Thanks, Nick

Post by zezo | 2017-11-13 | 06:59:04

MacAll, Taberly-AVL, Toppen, Swedesailor too

and Marcusbelgicus and Your Mom SA a bit to the east

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-13 | 08:26:18

Thanks makes it more interesting, I didnt have MacAll, Taberly-AVL or Iona29 they all look in pretty strong relative to the rest of that group. I remember in the old days when you did the kml files and you could just see random dots. i would spend ages trying to work out who people were.

Post by MissAdventure | 2017-11-15 | 01:23:16

I really miss those kml files too, Nick. They brought to light previously invisible leaders. Hours and hours of fun :)

Post by nsp | 2017-11-13 | 11:51:43

what doesn't make it interesting is you going stelth mode ;) hahahahah

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-13 | 13:36:16

haha, indeed. I have been hiding for a little while now......

Post by nsp | 2017-11-13 | 14:59:45

next time we'll give you names of boats in stealth mode hahahaha

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-13 | 19:41:36

Cannot for the life of me understand how the heck iona29 could flee from us chasing, yesterday bout this time we were on the same line going at twa 90 and then i fell off some more to like 93 and going like that all night and this morning "he/ske/it" had gone south more than 5 miles or so......strange.
But it ain�t over until Cape Town so....chasing chasing !!!

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-13 | 21:13:32

Plenty of big decisions to be made yet, I'm doing some head scratching at the moment, it appears the decisions we make now (or have already made) will have an effect on how far south we can get.
Are there any gates in this leg or southern limit?

Post by zezo | 2017-11-13 | 22:18:34

The race has ice limit defined at 60S internally. No idea if it would be enforced if you go there.

Edit: there is also a red line in the chart. But we have no business down there. Router itself is limited to 55S to save resources.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-14 | 01:43:09

@ Swedesailor: Iona29 It's a She. And a good tough sailor. And it's not the first time she wins a leg in a VOR or Vend�e with really tough competition and challengers...so if I were you, I would double the effort...

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-14 | 09:41:14

Cool ! Yeah i have seen the name before up in the standings so i know she�s good at this ;)

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-13 | 22:26:44

Sweet, I had seen that line and wondered. Was just checking really. I've been playing with lots of routes and different weather models and have not seen one go that far.

Post by HKG1203 | 2017-11-14 | 11:10:09

New to these forums. Who do we think is winning the west group right now? iona 29 is quite bow forward as noted before, is she leading?

Post by nsp | 2017-11-14 | 21:27:55

It is still a long way to go..but in this moment..I would bet in the middle group ..I mean some of the guys like 60 to 200 miles east of the far west group (that inclludes Iona29). . Iona29 is not alone. Right now is going on some battle and there is not a huge battle because people are trying to defend every little bit of "east" they have, if not I am sure we would see at least 20 boats opening their angle and pop on top of Iona29 in some hours. Also, we can't clearly luff, because the "group of the middle" is coming down with a open angle and they also will protect their bit of east. Plus they have more wind.

So imho, In this moment things are not closed. Far away from that..really far. And I guess we may have surprises...

Sometimes people forget that starting to cross the Atlantic at like 35 to 38S with a slight curve south is still a long way to go. A far west route have to have speed to go enough south to make the crossing shorter. It's not what I am seeing it's happening this year..but we'll see. Plus..St. Helena is really misbehaving.

Clear enough? :)

Post by HKG1203 | 2017-11-15 | 03:50:07

Thank you that was a very interesting post! I am currently in the middle of the group in terms of east west trying not to take too much risk however when sleeping overnight the boats i was trying to cover all took a dive east so now i could be hung out to dry a bit!

Post by nsp | 2017-11-16 | 20:12:58

See what I meant 2 days ago? 2 days ago would you preview it? And I like the position of your boat. Time to keep West instead of East, because of wind pressure. And
yes.. they saw a mermaid in Brazil and went after her. :)))

But again...things keep really far from over...it's all open. East, west, middle...it's about tactics, brains and a little bit of luck. And I keep saying this leg is going to be a surprise.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-14 | 22:14:54

To exemplify what I wrote...one of the boats that is in a really good position in this moment is MiguelRodrigues 170miles east of far western group.. Check it and you will understand what I mean.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-14 | 22:19:55

Now we got to the interesting part of this race. We have ridges to cross and low-pressure systems to chase and boats to the West get the pressure first.

On my screen our fellow marcusbelgicus is in a pretty good position right now (without running the router on his boat, just looking at the situation)

Post by nsp | 2017-11-14 | 22:24:22

hahahha I edited my post to include Marcusbelgicus exaactly at the same moment you posted yours...guess we are on the same page..

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-14 | 23:22:21

This morning, my position was great, not so great now. The situation appears to be more on equilibrium, with no real winner, a couple of days ago, the west had a clear advantage.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-14 | 22:22:23

To exemplify what I wrote...2 of the boats that are in a really good position in this moment are Marcusbelgicus 70 miles and MiguelRodrigues 170 miles east of far western group.. Check them and you will understand what I mean.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-14 | 22:43:39

the other interesting thing...No doldrums this year:))))

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-15 | 01:30:04

Good to see the party in Rio is back on.... Still getting smacked but this is better than before for me anyway.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-15 | 22:53:20

Last night someone in the western group must have seen mermaids near the coast in Brazil, since from a certain moment almost the entire western group went there..it looked like ducks in syncronized swimming...

That or Zezo is a bit crazy :)))) which is not the case of course. As Cvetan says above we are in the interesting part of the leg. Time for tactics and brains.

But it's allways interesting to see how people react to a move from a player that we consider a good one. Most of the times they follow, just to don't lose contact. Sometimes it pays off ...sometimes not...

The battle is on.

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-16 | 02:38:41

It was the routing saying to go there. It must be very close to being faster. Some other weather models show it as being the way to go. I think if it wasnt lighter in there at the moment it would be a better option.

Post by Banjo69 | 2017-11-16 | 16:48:29

So they guys on the ivory coast are in for a surprise in about 4-5 days. I calculate them as coming in 4.5 days after the western league.

Imagine the stresslevel of these guys now, sleep deprivation etc. and out of the blue the wil lfall to 30k ranks

muhahahah

Post by zezo | 2017-11-16 | 16:50:06

Some of them are aware that the route is a biiig gamble and have second boat in Brazil ;-)

Post by Banjo69 | 2017-11-16 | 17:26:53

I think last time someone actually won taking that route was when it was called Whitbread around the world race. I remember in the 1981 version when i first got interested in this race there were some pretty nice pictures of sunbathing and barbequing aboard the Berge Viking boat off teh ivory coast.

By the looks of it it seems that the fleet over there are doing just that :)

Post by nsp | 2017-11-16 | 19:47:49

queueing without the barb part ..I guess :)))

Post by Bitcoin | 2017-11-16 | 23:21:05

My boat name is Bitcoin, the same as here, in the West too. It's difficult to choose between wind presure or angle.

Captain Sheep is in a nice position and in the head of the far West group.

Post by Seangel88 | 2017-11-17 | 04:54:35

What is your position and what are the leading boats, I can not tell. Where is Captain Sheep?

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2017-11-17 | 06:17:36

Captain Sheep is way west of you, some 200 miles

Post by Seangel88 | 2017-11-17 | 04:52:32

Post by HKG1203 | 2017-11-17 | 13:43:17

Does anyone know if there is a considerable number of boats around marcus or is he in a group of his own right now? On my screen marcus is the only boat of concern but im sure there are many around him!

Post by NOR7034 | 2017-11-17 | 15:36:08

If You mean Marcusbelgicus I see Your Mom in his wake and SY SeaSick a little further behind.. How I miss the Satelite view!

Post by zezo | 2017-11-17 | 17:03:21

I may do the black dot sat view again here if VR does not.

Last time it also included players friends and it can be done again for people using the chrome extension. But even just users of the router would be somehow representative about the fleet.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-17 | 17:09:22

I really don't understand this thing...years ago with all technological limitations we were able to have more boats as friends and to see more boats than now...
..."the best platform"...
...no more comments

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-17 | 22:44:11

Raketa very close to me, I believe the closest, and la semillante a little bit more on the east. And Tame bird as well.

Post by WetHog | 2017-11-17 | 16:13:59

There are 3 of us (mudsailor, m2for and myself) roughly 100 miles west of Captain Sheep. We are about to gybe back east (mudsailor just did) in the next hour, or I am at least. Not sure how many are out here with us because we are all part of Sailing Anarchy group so I can see them because they are on my friends list (VR still hasn't added our YC). I've zoomed all the way in and no one else pops up. Anyway, this be my flier because I didn't feel like following the leaders for the next week or so. We have 3+ knt better breeze over here so hopefully it helps, a little.

Post by Luiz | 2017-11-17 | 19:38:04

Hi WetHog, I'm about 30 miles east of your position (Mizaza 1), almost crossing my hometown latitude (Itajai 26�55'). Seeing BLUEMONSTER LDLN 10 miles ahead. I didn't find anyone else around. Thinking it will be a tight night.

Post by wild4est | 2017-11-17 | 21:59:48

Hello WetHog, you are some 4 nm before me and just behind Lund1568.

Post by HKG1203 | 2017-11-17 | 19:02:07

Just got absolutely smoked in the last 6 hours. Tried to close the gauge on Marcusbelgicus however i didn't get as much south as i hoped i would in doing so therefore i fear i have now lost up to 7 miles as I was looking close for a cross. Struggling to cross Your Mom now but only time will tell. Seems like the group closest to the High will be coming out on top.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-17 | 21:21:43

you still have to Jibe twice...no?...

Post by zezo | 2017-11-18 | 00:19:05

There is similar fight in the real race between Brunel and Vestas (further west, on about my track) and Dongfeng and Mapfre (going after Marcus) and AkzoNobel even further East than most of our group.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-18 | 21:14:51

900+ nm behind the leader now and for him only 1800+ nm to go. In order words:
to break even, my average VMG must be 1.5 times his in the next 8 days ...

let's wait and see

boat: DancingDjMike
NMS + free C0 + free cards

Post by zezo | 2017-11-18 | 22:00:35

Given the prevailing winds the expected VMG of western group is at least 2 times more, not 1.5.

Post by JohnT | 2017-11-18 | 22:23:08

I wouldn't be too concerned with the East group. Using the magic of Zezo, not only are they destined to go slower, they are going almost directly upwind, so VMG much less than boatspeed. In Truffle Hunter I'm only a few hours SE of you and my ETA is 4 days ahead of the current leader....

Post by zezo | 2017-11-18 | 22:34:42

Just look at the polars. The boat can't make more than about 8 knots VMG upwind. The Eastern route is dead upwind no matter what, because of natural circulation pattern around the St Helena high (the animated wind display is actually useful to see the effect)

They could use some wind shifts to gain slight angle, but will lose speed in the process.

The expected speed/vmg on a reach, OTOH is in the 15-25 knots range.

Considering all of this, even a no-option boat should be able to beat the current leaders to Cape Town.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-19 | 06:04:48

I totally agree!

Plus, of course i see some really on the spot boats like Marcusbelgicus. I whish I were in his position, or closer :)))

But...behind..and still, in general..everything is open and it's possible...I know that its almost a 5 days drag race till Cape town, but I have seen a lot in of changes in shorter periods of time.

Game is still on :)

Post by Lasse | 2017-11-19 | 12:09:20

I'm east of the west group and I think it looks good. But according to zezo I'm going to be overtaken by Marcusbelgicus and the rest...

Boat name n'Lasse

Post by nsp | 2017-11-19 | 19:53:59

In 24/36h if beacons along the way are well positioned there will start to be a dramatic change of numbers as Eastern boats are going to start to drop in ranking. First gradually, But in some hours will be huge the difference.

The curious thing about western group is ...in thois moment I don't have a favorite :))) things are really open as there are some differences about latitude and wind pressure that keeps things evolving...amazing.

The winner of this leg is someone who still is going to really have to work hard, make some choices and be lucky.

:)

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-19 | 20:18:31

It�s been a hard day at work but clawing some 35 miles back on Marcusbelgicus and the front from east/west.
Still haven�t given up the race here but if the winds are getting lighter a little north of me they are captured :D
Only just 20 miles left now.

Rock on out there !

Post by nsp | 2017-11-19 | 20:26:08

lol you're ghosting....get out of the shadows and prove it...hahahahah

Marcusbelgicus run...a fleet of bloodhound is catching your feet :)))

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-19 | 21:54:58

19,2 miles behind now.....i am 15 miles south of Sideshow actually.
Unfortunately i won�t appear again until late tomorrow, i pressed to times on the stupid hide button ;)

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-19 | 22:02:22

and two times the post button ;)

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-19 | 21:54:59

19,2 miles behind now.....i am 15 miles south of Sideshow actually.
Unfortunately i won�t appear again until late tomorrow, i pressed to times on the stupid hide button ;)

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-19 | 22:02:35

and two times the post button ;)

Post by zezo | 2017-11-19 | 23:20:37

This is a bug in the forum. It posts again if you hit reload. Please don't do that ;-)

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-19 | 22:07:05

Noooo....did only post one, you did on the other hand the exact same thing ?
Weird.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-19 | 23:54:26

the second time was copy-paste-post ;)

Post by zezo | 2017-11-19 | 23:22:30

It seems that we'll be riding a low-pressure system in the next few days, with the possibility of overtaking it.

That may lead to considerable fleet compression, so don't give up yet.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-19 | 23:55:07

interesting, being 6h behind the leaders in the east

Post by migaguiar | 2017-11-20 | 08:55:07

Yep .. I was 6,5hours from supposed Virtual leaders that I�m tracking, now I'm 1.5hours. But I don�t think I can overtake, let�s see the next low-pressure ridge what will happen, a few miles lateral separation apart is making the difference now.

Boat: Tarahumara_POR

Good luck all and is being a big fun this leg... ;) Thanks Cvetan for the hard work.

Post by Bulli | 2017-11-20 | 01:18:54

So, who is in western group without any Boat options? I am trailing the real fleet ~100nm (Rank 24000) and i have no idea if this is good or not, we will see in a few days if I can make it sub 1000 without options and a few not so optimal decisions against the router...

Post by Inicio | 2017-11-20 | 10:03:37

You can track:

KIKECDF
fer_rs
Ping LTP
Marinus (only polish: + 0.3%)

Post by HKG1203 | 2017-11-20 | 10:37:05

I fell asleep without routing the boat to stay north. Compromised my situation a fair bit which is a bit of a pain. Just gotta try not to lose too much while getting back in contact with the fleet. Could have cost me a good results though. Marcus still looking extremely good along with tessa. Anybody else on their line?

Post by nsp | 2017-11-20 | 13:33:42

you are not that bad... and Marcus...well, we are already feeling the scent of blood ahhahahah

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-20 | 11:22:33

There is a new swede that popped on to my screen right about now whos boat is called kluck, just in Marcusbelgicus swall waves.....gotta chase�em down harder now !!
13,5 miles to go !!

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 11:32:30

And another swede on the front line - Misil208 a bit to the North

Post by nsp | 2017-11-20 | 13:39:39

And another swede (solen 2) popped now.. You guys are popping like mushrooms...

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-20 | 13:39:01

Have you seen RQ-Naos?

Post by nsp | 2017-11-20 | 13:44:44

:O

well spotted!!

That's what I hate in this late surprises. glad is still like 2000nm to go.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 14:00:45

Now that's a good position. Required a bit of luck with the st. Helena high, but it seems that it's moving NE just in time and he would not have to gybe South.

Post by Toppen | 2017-11-20 | 15:19:21

RQ-Naos = something wrong... check his/hers track between 14th and 15th of Nov... warp speed or teleportation

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 15:34:02

But the next point is close and about correct. Maybe the track does not update if you are not logged in/don't send commands.

So it's possible that the boat was sailing HDG 180 happily for a while.

We could check the historical data. Also if there are other boats in the vicinity they'll pop in the ranking in few hours.

Post by HKG1203 | 2017-11-20 | 16:31:46

Surely it's impossible he got there. If it was legitimate there would at least be a few other boats around him and there are none in the top 50 sailing anything near the angle he is.

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-20 | 16:47:54

I don't see his track anymore. Not on the PC and not in my phone. Can anyone explain?

Post by Toppen | 2017-11-20 | 16:50:28

MarcusB has a solution for this: add him (not MarcusB though - RQ-Naos) as a friend, reload game, voila!

Post by HKG1203 | 2017-11-20 | 17:06:08

This did not work for me, but he is a fair bit behind and not 6 hours ahead correct?

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 17:16:03

Didn�t work for me either. No track visible, still moving though and fast If this is for real we have a winner. No way that anyone can beat his position, at least not from the western group

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 17:22:36

Went in 2 days from Fortaleza to Rio wtf :-) hielffeeeeeeeeee

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 17:24:07

Track visible now, but makes no sense. Frogs are pulling a joke I guess, or we have a hacker amongst us

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-20 | 17:44:48

Adding as a friend also does not work. I get a green butten with a question mark.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 17:49:36

That's the equivalent of "Are you sure" dialog. Click it again.

Then it will tell you that you already have the max 20 friends and you'll have to click some red buttons twice.

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-20 | 18:08:49

Thanks! The UI is very intuitive I must say :-)

Post by Misil208 | 2017-11-20 | 18:35:47

Is it possible to be #1 as RQ-Naos after sailing that path? Can a backtrack be done from November 12 with historical grib-files for RQ-Naos? Or is this a bug in the game which also might have affect other boats?

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 18:50:04

My gut feeling says it's possible, but I may be wrong.

I have all the data needed for a backtrack, have done retrospective routing for entire legs once, but that was before the interpolated winds.

It would require some additional work to recreate the exact past conditions now.

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 19:00:36

He is already in Day 15 of the game, whereas we are still in Day 14

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 19:01:25

It might be Michael J. Fox, Back to the Future

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 19:05:20

The track has time stamps on all points, not the 24-hour intervals only, so we may do a little math and check the distances traveled over times. It just needs a little formatting - time to write a json2kml toool ;-)

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 19:05:31

Well, it�s showing I am still in Day 14. I show many other in Day 15 as well. wtf?

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 19:11:06

Something happens in his day count near the Brazilian coast. It looks like he skips a day, and shortly after Day 10 he catches up 1 day. But most players (probably all) players have 3 markers and he/she only has 2

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 19:12:21

So he travels the distance over 2 days in just 1 day

Post by karriv | 2017-11-20 | 19:15:25

The stamp of 15.11. is clearly not in the correct place. The next stamp (16.11.) is very close to that of 15.11. If you compare the track to that of Lazy Hikers Finland (our music fan;), you'll see that it is at least not very far off from a possible route.

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-20 | 19:34:08

Yes but at the place where he was, there was Saint Helene with 4 knot.

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-20 | 19:19:09

His route looks very plausible to me now. His day 10 is now about in the middle of days 9 and 11. A few hours ago it looked differently, his day 10 was shifted towards day 11. But now you can see, he progressed quite well in sync with e.g. Marcusbelgicus.
BTW RQ seems to be Belgian as well. So we have a Belgian supremacy here ;-)

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-20 | 19:28:56

Seem strange to me

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 19:24:54

Now someone fixed the track (or it fixed itself)

Here are the numbers. Last column is S latitude minutes/hour which happens to be knots of boat speed in the 180 direction.

Sun Nov 12 21:35:00 2017 1.143062 -28.884221 -11.4918527833428
Mon Nov 13 01:35:11 2017 0.329866 -29.07198 -12.1886072511229
Mon Nov 13 05:37:11 2017 -0.486515 -29.260458 -12.1444998706173
Mon Nov 13 07:49:00 2017 -0.966794 -29.371348 -13.1168005507235
Mon Nov 13 10:09:11 2017 -1.503142 -29.465943 -13.7734656889354
Mon Nov 13 14:09:11 2017 -2.407983 -29.639633 -13.5725358267701
Mon Nov 13 18:11:10 2017 -3.399458 -29.832606 -14.7496100273692
Mon Nov 13 18:15:00 2017 -3.415506 -29.835731 -15.1290502868863
Mon Nov 13 22:15:11 2017 -4.404355 -29.870343 -14.8212896708719
Tue Nov 14 02:17:11 2017 -5.457303 -29.90725 -15.6635144977853
Tue Nov 14 06:17:11 2017 -6.471022 -29.942843 -15.2054164798609
Tue Nov 14 09:36:00 2017 -7.271627 -29.971004 -14.4974287767765
Tue Nov 14 13:37:10 2017 -8.379317 -29.971004 -16.5339547186293
Tue Nov 14 17:38:02 2017 -9.555454 -29.971004 -17.5791618862524
Tue Nov 14 21:38:04 2017 -10.630616 -29.971004 -16.1255162146532
Wed Nov 15 01:38:04 2017 -11.667983 -29.971004 -15.5599668845796
Wed Nov 15 05:40:05 2017 -12.785949 -29.971004 -16.6301650181601
Wed Nov 15 09:40:06 2017 -13.939659 -29.971004 -17.3036648851714
Wed Nov 15 13:42:06 2017 -15.079305 -29.971004 -16.9535259946519
Wed Nov 15 17:44:06 2017 -16.175056 -29.971004 -16.3010410722099
Wed Nov 15 21:44:08 2017 -17.256557 -29.971004 -16.2200054048031
Thu Nov 16 01:44:15 2017 -18.315941 -29.971004 -15.8826587410481
Thu Nov 16 05:44:28 2017 -19.383642 -29.971004 -16.0010007588547
Thu Nov 16 09:44:40 2017 -20.450389 -29.971004 -15.9886361555408
Thu Nov 16 12:26:00 2017 -21.15909 -29.971004 -15.8143486732603
Thu Nov 16 16:26:50 2017 -22.086903 -29.683946 -13.8689973448687
Thu Nov 16 17:44:00 2017 -22.379822 -29.593207 -13.6654625517614
Thu Nov 16 17:49:00 2017 -22.398674 -29.586973 -13.5734399999993

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-20 | 19:33:05

It seems that VR has moved the dots now

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 19:42:00

It will be sorted. I have screenshots. Nobody is able to change its track, unless... I'm not buying, its smelly

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 19:44:48

Cool down, please. We can always run the routing in retrospect with the past data and see if it's plausible or not.

Edit: Looks I had something like this in mind when designing the file format and archived data, so it would be a matter of few lines of code.

Might be fun to do anyway after the finish, see the 'perfect route' and how close we got to it. Just have to capture some boat tracks to compare.

Post by RQ-Naos | 2017-11-20 | 19:35:02

Hello everybody, I see some discussions on my track since I appeared on your radar.
The 2 days at 180� are totally right and was a choice of mine when I saw lot of you going far west at Fernando de Noronha. My idea was to be better positionned if the winds would let me go East before you. It was a bet, and I am today happy it was a good choice. And I also thought I would have other boats close to me popping up now, but apparently I was alone. Now I hope the winds will let me keep my advance up to Cape Town.

RQ-Naos

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 19:45:28

Cheers, mate ;-)

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-20 | 19:51:35

well done so far! what a lead over #2

we'll see the final ranking in Cape Town

Post by RQ-Naos | 2017-11-20 | 20:00:55

And of course a lot of thanks to Cvetan for his wonderful routing tool

Post by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-11-20 | 20:13:58

OK, why not, even if this does not explain the +/- 600nm in 24 hours between the 14th and 15th november...
Then, the question is now...why Zezo (and other routers) didn't see this track ?

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-20 | 20:18:22

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 20:36:23

If you look at the numbers above, the boat was not steered on 15th of Novemvber. The longitude stays the same between
Tue Nov 14 09:36:00 2017 -7.271627 -29.971004 -14.4974287767765
and
Thu Nov 16 12:26:00 2017 -21.15909 -29.971004 -15.8143486732603

I'd bet that the game has a bug where it does not register/display a daily dot if you don't steer your boat.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 20:46:02

Because weather is unpredictable. The router can do no better than the weather forecast. There was a point where a shortcut was possible, then there was not. Somebody took the chance. I often do that kind of things myself when I'm not in position to qualify in top 100 or so.

Post by SYSeaSick | 2017-11-20 | 20:21:56

Post by SYSeaSick | 2017-11-20 | 20:29:25

Who moved the bullet time stamp to the "correct" place? Why was it wrong in the first place?

Post by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-11-20 | 20:34:15

That is the question....

Post by KelpiedSinglePlayer | 2017-11-20 | 21:05:23

OK Cvetan, I know Zezo (or any other routers) cannot imagine and propose all possibles "shortcuts" and that's better as it is... it let some doubts and personnal tactical options....
So, congratulation to RQ-Naos for his good luck...that's all we can say...

Post by Slapdash | 2017-11-20 | 21:05:45

In defense of RQ-Naos, I attempted a close in approach to the High pressure.

Unfortunately... I had not the courage of my convictions, and only half did it due to the uncertainty of the position of the front that then lay well to the south.

There was a possibility of good winds, and they appeared!!.... but I was unable to get to them and the ridge closed me off so I had to come south. RQ-Naos track was to the east of me.... as I see now, and would have given him the winds I saw.....

Well done.....

Now I find myself playing catch up!..... again...:-)

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 21:50:10

http://zezo.org/vor_retro/chart.pl?o=244

This is the retrospective route. It needs more work, but shows that going 180, 30W on Nov 15th was reasonable choice.

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-20 | 22:11:45

Unless I missunderstood the graph, you only arrive at the position of RQ Naos at 7:00 tomorrow right? So 10 hours from now

Post by Swedesailor | 2017-11-20 | 22:18:53

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 22:23:16

The router is sub-optimal, exactly in that area. See how it sails in zig-zags instead of going straight 180.

I'll take another look tomorrow, see if I can fine-tune it for this kind of track. Too tired now.

Edit: And it does not like going backwards from the origin, as you know, so it can't find the shorter route around the left High. Try moving the dst north and see what happens.

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-20 | 22:37:31

Thanks Cvetan for the hard work, as usual.
Now if VR has used other gribs than the official ones, then the route is possible. Remember that on the leg 1 of the mini, they used 2-3 times the same gribs.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 22:41:51

It's a bit the other way around. What you see does not account for the game interpolating the old and new forecast around the update. So there are four 3-hour intervals in 24 hours where winds differ more or less. In retrospect that's half of the time.

With the fixed 12-hour updates it was possible to get a perfect match, now it would be really hard to get so close.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-20 | 22:46:24

do you see any way to get the wheather on your router closer at the VR-game during those intervals?

I mean, if you have a better clue of how VR is updating wheather, than you could mimic it closer.

any VR-insider with a tip.

by the way, just gibed to starboard again (southbound) in full trust of your router (from my position). I don't see other boats nearby gybe yet.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 23:04:37

I think I know how it happens, but fixing it will require a major rewrite of my code. I'm not sure if it's worth it because most of the time the differences are pretty minor.

Unless you happen to be around the center of a weather system, that is.

But then the difference in wind direction in +/- 5 minutes is more than the difference between weather models. And you have to stop somewhere with the accuracy and precision matching.

It's easier in the real world - the router is used for strategical planning and nobody expects the winds on the screen to match the instruments exactly.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-20 | 23:30:34

If you don't believe me try plugging your own position as destination and see how far behind yourself the router thinks you are.

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-21 | 00:08:04

Thanks Cvetan, I guess that if VR has changed the speed as some stage, or did not load the expected grib, this would influence the route. So at the end impossible to track.
Only people from VR could really track the route, but they will not do it. If RQ-Naos has benefited from a bug, it is not his fault, but VR's one, nobody can blame him. So well-done RQ-Naos, sorry if I have not been fair with you.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 00:17:27

I don't remember VR having a wrong grib in this leg. Even I had not noticed someone else would. BTW it's possible to track that too, but not in retrospect.

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-21 | 00:41:03

That's fine Cvetan, I don't think it is worth to do it. At the end, it is just a game.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 08:38:00

I tuned the router a bit. It still can't make it to the exact point because that means sailing backwards, and it can't do that, but now the point clearly lies on the 20-Nov 19h isochrone.

Post by NickOlson | 2017-11-20 | 23:30:36

Well done RQ-Naos. A great thing about this type of game is that most options for routing end up being covered. This option has clearly paid off. Sux to be those of us thinking we were doing the "right thing" going the long way round:)

Post by nsp | 2017-11-21 | 02:01:14

Hi guys,

Well I found it weird too but with some justification as a strategy - i even thought at that maybe a good bet of a route to followealier in the leg - maybe the distance ahead is too big to my surprise, still..

However today and yesterday I have been spooting some weird stuff.

I am not going to mention any names, some of them most of you I am sure are following, but I have seen today boats doing flat straight routes always with the same twa, while me in the vecinity doing the same twa describing a clear curve, crossing their route.

I spotted also situations of boats with logs of wind screenshotted at different hours sometimes 1knot above the wind spooted with the cursor in their area while me in vecinity having the rea wind and the real log. And have screenshots of this, taken at different times..And it's not valid the agument of the wind update between cycles because the difference is never 1 knot.

Spotted also another issue but that one I am uncertain so asked Cvetan's help and sent him by mail the logs of my boat where I spotted some weird situations like the log assuming the distance over a given period and then subtracting it.. which means something like the boat stopped that cycle. and as proved in the log there is no sail change no tack or no jibe.

I don't intend to fuel any fire. But there are deffenitely weird things going on. And it's not the first time as we all know.

I hope there his an explanation to the above mentioned issues.

Cheers

Nuno

Post by Slapdash | 2017-11-21 | 02:37:53

nsp...

I think a lot of what 'appears' to be strange tracks can be put down to the fact that we are plotting on a 'Flat Earth'.... while sailing on the 'Round one'.

Even at the relatively low latitudes we are operating in at the moment, there is a difference.... in distances and tracks, especially E-W.

and then ..... we have Rhumb Lines, and Great circles.

Yes, I have seen one speed indicated in game.... but using the Chrome VR Dashboard addon I see a different one. A quick reload seems to solve the problem.... and the game appears correct again... I assume it's my cache!....

Sail well down there, all we can do, 150nm North of you heading to pass Tristan, is hope the High ahead gives us a fast route through.... and goes fickle for you lot, but I have my doubts.

Right...back up to the Cockpit...to flog the crew again!!... :-)

Cheers

Post by nsp | 2017-11-21 | 03:28:17

Hi Slapdash,

Hope you feel confortable in the cockpit :)

Of course I am aware of what you said and as a sailor with some thousands of miles in real waters and hundreds of thousands of miles in here routing with you guys, I don't ignore the concepts of Rhumb Lines, Great Circles and orthodromic route and other variables of navigation.

I may have explained myself in a poor way...when you are 3 miles away from a boat, with the same wind and with the same twa it's supposed that the line of your routes are similar we see that a lot. You navigating with other boats in parallel lines..same wind , same twa, same heading. At a distance of 3, 4 or 5 even 10 miles with the same values, I expect to see this.

Now, if I am doing te same TWA than other boat next to me with the same TWA, with the same TWD I can't really understand how i am describing a curve and he/she is in a flat straight line, because the projection of the route has to be the same (similar) for both boats.

Cheers

Post by migaguiar | 2017-11-21 | 06:51:50

Well is hard to see all pack at least following behind 122Nm.. and just a single one ahead.. anyhow! game it is!

Congrats RQ-Naos ... and watch your 6 since I�m coming full trim ahead...

;)

Post by Slapdash | 2017-11-21 | 09:15:24

nsp....

My apologies, I did not intend the comment to offend or imply that your were incorrect in your observations. It was a 'poor' attempt at humour.

I too, see what appears to be strange angles on the plot, but I hope it is down to the limitations of attempting to present real life in as few pixels as possible.

I would be extremely disappointed if I was to find out that the game was 'fixed' to benefit a few over the rest. I must therefore accept that it is just that the computer screen cannot show the nuances of a real 'sail'... wet, cold, eyes sore, back sore, chaffing wet gear, the constant rolling and pitching, the stream of mugs of tea.... etc etc...

I sit here in awe at those undertaking the real event.

Once again I meant no offence nor to question your own understanding or skills in navigation, which would well outclass mine.

Regards

Post by nsp | 2017-11-21 | 12:35:48

Hi Slapadash,

I garantee you, no offense taken :)

As a matter of a fact as when I see this kind of situations, me too, I have a tendancy to not value them or to classify them as what i would call as "bugs" if i had to call that anything.

However, I have been around since the beginning of VR when the definition of pixel was really a visible fact. And since then we were used to saw really strange things, like boats jumpimg over land pixels, kind of "crossroadind yachts", etc :) Some would still remember the episode of a leading boad called "elpape" doing this and still continuing to navigate as if nothing happened...It was a collective explosion back then in forums. And I see that as a bug. It doesn't cross my mind that someone took advantage of their hacker skills to their bennefits in here.

However, I know that it is possible, I remember that in VirtualSkipper, some years ago, some players (not just a little number) were banned because they found a way to accelerate their boats. And the idiot thing it was that we were racing against them and we were just amazed at the time thinking....wow how good these guys are, just until one of the guys discover the plott.

I don't know if it that is possible in this kind of platform, and I prefer to even don't think about it or simply I wouldnt be here. One thing I am sure nowadays with a lot more of us turned to technologies those kind of situations would be more easy to spott. So I can't ignore that some strange things happen...when I spott something that I think is really wrong I ask the experts their opinion. In the above mentioned cases I sent some data to Cvetan and asked his opinion.

But I stay cool.

It's just this...the rest is fun and just a game, that i like to think it's a fair one for everyone of us.

Get out of the cockpit and get some sun hehehheh

cheers

Nuno

Post by Dogzilla | 2017-11-21 | 10:00:48

First of all sorry for my english, i'm french !!!

Congratulations to RQ-Naos for what he made. I've never seen a such gap between first and other boats. I'm not a great sailor but I've made 3 vendee globe and several other races without any tool or routing (NMS and no help). I was always following "usual stars" yourmom, toppen, kramaouet, inicio...
Since VRO3 i decided to use zezo and to participate to each race to improve.

What RQ-Naos have done is incredible. Too bad that you didn't participate to other races Mini transat, TJV, clipper. First race and a amazing win to come. Hope to see you on RORC to follow your achievement.

Post by RQ-Naos | 2017-11-21 | 11:48:53

Thank you Dogzilla, you are right I don't play a lot, I participated to the 2 (or 3?) last Vend�e Globe, and now to the VOR for the second time. I wish you fair winds.

Post by Phorgeron62 | 2017-11-21 | 10:39:26

Looks like RQ-Naos is heading already to Melbourne. Not sure what his intentions are.

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-21 | 10:41:36

Whatever, VR has lost it�s credibility as the game is obfuscated. This was the last game for me. I hope they have to file for chapter 11 soon ... And may something better emerge from the ashes!!! Big thanks for everything Cvetan and goodluck to all players, may the bugs be with you

Post by Patrice | 2017-11-21 | 11:20:50

VR est en train de se moquer grave de nous!!!! qui est RQ-NAOS? un concepteur de VR, un ami proche de Philippe GUIGNE ? des r�ponses sont � apporter...Ce qui a �t� fait est impossible...De qui VR se fout il?

Post by RQ-Naos | 2017-11-21 | 11:42:45

Pas tr�s gentil pour moi �a Patrice, je suis juste un joueur occasionnel, j'ai fait 3 Vend�e Globe et cette VOR est ma 2�. Je me retrouve devant tous les "grands" apr�s avoir pris une option plein sud durant presque 3 jours quand les autres partaient trop � l'ouest me semblait-il. Heureusement, les messages de sympathie et d'encouragement que je re�ois depuis hier sont bien plus nombreux que ceux de d�nigrement comme le tien. Je te souhaite de bons vents quand m�me, sportivement.

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-21 | 12:08:56

Free translation:

Not very nice for me that Patrice, I'm just a casual player, I made 3 Vend�e Globe and this VOR is my 2nd. I find myself in front of all the "big" after taking a southern option for almost 3 days when others left too far west I thought. Fortunately, the messages of sympathy and encouragement I have received since yesterday are far more numerous than those of bashing like yours. I wish you good winds anyway, sportingly.

Post by chelonia | 2017-11-21 | 12:08:01

Free translation:

VR is making serious fun of us !!!! who is RQ-NAOS? an RV designer, a close friend of Philippe GUIGNE? Answers are to be made ... What has been done is impossible ... Who does VR care about?

Post by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 12:43:24

Now that's a dare accusation - being a friend of Philippe ;-)

Seriously, VR have to work on the bugs in the game interface and on transparency and trust in general.

That would be easy to do in this case - someone should say "the code was buggy and was doing this thing. Now we fixed it and it does that thing. Here are the numbers, see for yourself.

Post by Lasse | 2017-11-21 | 15:44:02

I must have made some bad decisions during Sunday because I lost so much to RQ-Naos. Otherwise I could have been in second place now.

Boat name n�Lasse

Post by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 15:56:03

I guess that more people will try lateral thinking in the following legs.

I often go for slightly different route myself, but was too busy fixing things and also in my day job so have sailed this leg almost like a robot. Properly analyzing weather takes a lot of time, even with the aid of a router.

Post by haliz | 2017-11-21 | 17:46:16

There will always be disgruntled people. If it was the Russian boat would have heard the phrase: "Russian hackers" :)

Post by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 17:52:40

Russian hackers are the best hackers in the world. Then come the Bulgarian hackers ;-)

Post by haliz | 2017-11-21 | 17:56:00

Bulgarian factories made computers for the Russian hackers are still in the Soviet times :)
Bulgarian hackers taught Russian hackers :)

Post by zezo | 2017-11-21 | 18:23:19

Entire institutes dedicated to reverse-engineering Western technology. One of my current bosses (75 year old) has been copying IBM mainframes in the 70's.

Post by kewcom | 2017-11-21 | 22:35:54

Reading the posts...maybe VR have slowed the virtual boats down so that the real boats arrive 1st.....I recall in past races there was discussion about this happening......

Post by nsp | 2017-11-22 | 02:30:13

Hi Guys,

If you think this race is closed.....I guess you are wrong!!!

It's not easy, but RQ-Naos your strategy contributed to shake and wake up all the bloodhounds in the fleet.

We feel the scent of your blood in the water...

Shark attack!!!!!! hehehehe

"Run pretty girl, run!"

fair winds

Nuno

Post by Sir_Petrus | 2017-11-22 | 10:45:12

Classification is a real mess.
Evrytime I go to the rank table and swap beetwen general rank and my country flag I lose 2 or more places in general rank.
in terms of classification where am I?

Post by nsp | 2017-11-22 | 12:01:57

At 10:00 am GMT You are 118th in my panel.

Post by Sir_Petrus | 2017-11-22 | 12:11:32

this is what I have now

home page - 127
top left - 120
click boat - 132
Rank - 106
flag - 3
rank again 110
flag -3
rank again 121
flag -3
rank again 128
...
...

Post by nsp | 2017-11-22 | 12:23:16

It happens the same to me and us all, I think.

This platform and the way it updates is crappy.

I wish we still have the old refresh button. To refresh every boat position. Now we have to click on everyone to see where they are...this if we can spot them...

grrrrr

Post by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 14:04:08

There are two separate ranking sources - one is your boat and the other is global ranking. So if you open the ranking your displayed position changes. Then if you click your boat it gets another data and it changes again.

It's understandable that with the frequent update not all possible rankings are calculated every minute or two (global, local, clubs) but it's too inconsistent now.

The lack of refresh button is confusing because your boat does move but the others don't. You can refresh by going Home and back, one click and two cloud animations later but it sucks.

Post by nsp | 2017-11-22 | 19:12:07

The thing is each time I go home I have to log in in the game again..

Another thing that it's missing in this new version is a clickable square "remember me" in the login window.

So yeah...it sucks..double time. Sometimes is quicker to click in all boats...

It's the opposite of techological evolution and innovation...or how to evolve backwards if you prefer. :(

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-22 | 14:40:47

@Patrice, sending those accusations is not very clever. We have the data from Zezo showing it was possible. What have shocked everyone (and me in particular) is the combination of the weird position of the dots on his route, the gap in distance we had and the rapid change of the dots made by VR, all those things were quite suspicious.
Thinking about it yesterday, I have been looking for a possible more direct route, this was the reason of my choice to stay more east, and I only decided much later to take the west route as it was so much more interesting. But that was based on a depression starting earlier, some routing have given me up to 3 hours arriving before the west group. And the depression started later, and we had to take more south than originally, so much more miles to do, and slower than expected. RQ-Naos has taken advantage of this, and a weaker anticyclone than originally forecasted. And then you get the 6 hours of gap he had. He took some risk, nobody else did take that risk, and his victory is going to be one of the nicest VR has got in recent years. So congratulation again for that risky choice, RQ-Naos!

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-22 | 15:44:17

hear hear
I fully agree with your analysis Marcus.
Congratulations from my side to RQ-Naos too, as he/she'll get a victory well deserved!

Post by nsp | 2017-11-22 | 19:16:14

Are you sure he already won? I am not! :)

Post by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 19:23:39

There are endless possibilities here. Fall asleep at he helm, lose network connection or discover new and interesting game bug and get grounded at Green Point.

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2017-11-22 | 22:35:33

Don't joke with the internet connection, we had a big issue in the south part of belgium during the night of Saturday-Sunday, some people cut the cables at 2 important places, so no connection between saturday midnight to sunday noon. Mobile was still OK, but in my case that was a problem. I was in a wine degustation on saturday evening, put the appropriate prog before leaving, was planning to adjust the route when back. I had to do it with the mobile phone, but I challenge everyone to do a proper job to analyse the route on a mobile phone, with only one eye open to see something (wine was good!). So just let my boat continuing the route that I put the evening before.
Don't know what I would have done in normal circunstances, but maybe not choosing this bloody south route that is going to cost me a lot of places.
So RQ-Naos, no wine degustation/celebration before friday!
As we say in french : boire ou conduire, il faut choisir !!!
Fair winds to everyone!

Post by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 22:43:37

There is a running joke in sysadmin circles about the backhoe being the worst enemy of IT.

Here is what a backhoe looks like for those unfamiliar with the term

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-22 | 23:15:41

never thought of setting up a hotspot?

Post by nsp | 2017-11-22 | 20:43:12

Plus all of the solutions multiplied for at least 300 players foloowing him....
I wouldn't sleep if I were him,
I wouln'd eat, or drink or blink my eyes.
sex? well that.. out of limits, obiouslly.
lots of esteroids.
no drugs
mushrooms forbidden
hahahha

Post by zezo | 2017-11-22 | 20:50:20

Exactly the "nos sleep part" is the problem. I lost the Tour de France once (to a Belgian, btw) because I overdid it. Stayed awake for 24 hours to make small unneeded corrections, and then crashed and slept over the alarm exactly when there was deciding turn to be made.

That was my best result in a VR game ever, btw. Even with the 2nd place.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-23 | 01:07:02

RQ-Naos still on port while all bloodhounds and sharks gybed to starboard a couple of hours ago ...

will that open up opportunities?

Post by Slapdash | 2017-11-23 | 02:29:41

RQ-Naos.....

It really does look like the Fox being chased by the hounds...!!

Don't mind them :-)

Turn down the volume on the Radio... (This channel)
Put a CD in the player......
Put the coffee on.
Eat a bar of chocolate.....

Good luck!....

Post by nsp | 2017-11-23 | 04:40:24

yeah and takea nap...a big one----lol

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-23 | 20:10:45

But he is still going to win hands down.

Post by zezo | 2017-11-23 | 20:13:40

Has enough advantage to place a waypoint at the center of the finish circle and go get some beers waiting for the phone notification ;-)

I'm about to do the same myself soon.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-23 | 20:21:42

having a bear or placing a waypoint?

Post by zezo | 2017-11-23 | 20:37:30

The waypoint. Beers are already 3:0. This leg always takes me to my sleep deprivation limit, every 3 years. New players, new version, new bugs, tons of R&D and support work.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-11-24 | 00:01:25

cheers mate, well deserved!

Post by WaterHammer | 2017-11-24 | 14:17:49

Thanks Cvetan! Enjoy your rest!

Post by nsp | 2017-11-24 | 20:16:15

Well done Cvetan and thanks for all the hard work!