Zezo forum:

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-03-19 | 22:26:16

Magellan looks possibly interesting. It's hard to figure out much about it without committing to do it. Anyone have much info yet?

I was able to get into toxcct's polars through the dashboard... Looks like the boat is a "Caravelle" with max speeds in the vicinity of 7.8 kts... that's with a C0 and foils in 20 kts wind. Seems humorous to be using foils and a C0 on a Caravelle, but I'm actually happy to see it as I had wondered in the past if we might ever see a Hermione with foils.

The boat also has horrible upwind VMG angles... but interestingly its fastest point of sail under 7 kts windspeed is TWA 70, so it isn't just a downwind slogger like Hermione.

The dashboard's map also confirms that you must pass through the Canaries, as well as through a gate off Caravelas, Brazil. If the fleet encounters an upwind approach to either, that could get tricky.

Has anyone determined whether or not this event has any other oddities, such as the food impacts in the hold Hermione events?

61 Comments

Post by toxcct | 2019-03-20 | 09:07:25

I see a better top speed of 8.115kts with a Heavy Gennaker, TWA 150�, Wind Speed 24kts.
That's a lot ! :)

Regarding the foils and C0 on a caravelle, yeah, that's pretty irrelevant, but I suspect they would have to update too much of their boat model to be able to fully support such old boats (IIRC, those ships don't have symmetric polars, regulars/modern sails have nothing in common with those old squared pieces of tissue).

What I find funny is the animations when you get to pick the options.
The radio is a parrot, the foils are racks of paddles, etc...

Regarding the race, you said it all. I don't think there will be anything like the food tank in the Hermione race, and yes, there are buoys and gates, but nothing hidden we should worry about.

Post by mak08 | 2019-03-20 | 10:09:47

VR has tricked me into joining the race with the surprise popup they put on the home screen and I'm almost in a rant mood again. As usual they leave us in the dark as to what awaits us - not even an in-game message this time.

The prospect of a circumnavigation in an unknown number of legs ("episodes"), at a top speed of 8 knots, does not seem particularly tempting to me, all the more so as the follow-up episodes will likely not be offered at a 75% discount.

But of course, a departure into the unknown is very much in the spirit of Magellan ;-)

Post by zezo | 2019-03-20 | 12:47:46

http://zezo.org/magellan/chart.pl

About one month for this leg indeed. Pretty straight line because of the boat polars.

The Pacific leg(s) will be quite long - 2 - 3 months.

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-03-20 | 17:18:48

It looks like they posted a message stating that the event is a Category 3 but the Full Pack is being offered at the Category 5 price. I guess that's what they mean by the 75% discount.

I was thinking this event might be a good one to do on credits because it probably won't require much maneuvering and the fleet will be at sea long enough to gather a lot of cards... but I think the upgrades are being offered at the Category 3 price in credits, right?

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-04-01 | 18:17:15

The "incoming races" list now shows this as having at least 8 "episodes". I'm not sure how they'll do scoring for the overall event... Some episodes are Category 3 and others are Category 4.

I was interested in this originally, but I'm losing interest. I don't know how much I want to spend the rest of 2019 sailing slowly around the world. I like slow boats more than fast boats in short races... but long ocean passages in slow boats can be frustrating.

Post by lorenzo | 2019-04-01 | 20:28:52

I have my personal Murphy Law for VR: the time you spend in a race and the effort you put on it are directly proportional to the the chance to slip into a new bug and/or some new �improvement� from VR that will screw your race
So I wish all the best to Magellan in his trip, I will follow from the pub

Post by toxcct | 2019-04-03 | 07:31:07

Have you seen the duration estimated for the leg 4 of the Magellan race ? ^^ 😵

Post by Dogzilla | 2019-04-03 | 07:48:55

approximatively 11 years 6 month
christmas 2030

Post by CRISTAU | 2019-04-07 | 08:14:49

According to the green color of the winch in VR, the best angle should be 60�, but Zezo shows 65�, why such a difference? I see that everybody follows the 65� not the 60� of VR, seems that people believe more Zezo than VR! But which one is wrong?

Post by zezo | 2019-04-07 | 09:09:00

People believe in math.

VMG = speed*cos(TWA)

speeds for 60 and 65 degrees, C0:
tws:
[0, 6, 10, 14, 20, 24, 30, 35, 40, 55, 56, 70],

[0, 2.76, 4.01, 4.2, 4.4, 3.07, 2.28, 1.45, 1.2, 1.14, 0, 0],
[0, 3.36, 4.95, 5.24, 5.53, 4.17, 3.4, 2.52, 2.33, 2.21, 0, 0],

cos(60) = 0.5
cos(65) = 0.4226

4.01*05 = 2.005
4.95*0.4226 = 2.092

and so on.

You should not trust the router blindly. Sometimes it sails 2 or 5 degrees lower than the optimum. But you can trust the polars - here or toxcct's page.

Post by toxcct | 2019-04-07 | 11:33:13

👍

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-04-10 | 17:03:22

Every now and then, the routing in Magellan suddenly seems to be running with polars from something else... something that can do 20+ kts. It tends to last for maybe 10 minutes and then I don't see it again for a while. I ask because I'm seeing that right now... Anyone else encountering the same thing?

Post by zezo | 2019-04-10 | 17:49:00

Thanks. Wrong port on the load-balancer. Fixed. It was probably a Milti 70.

It's only used when the load on the main server goes above certain level, that's why you get correct result most of the time.

Post by pmangino | 2019-04-13 | 00:03:09

Please uncle Phillipe...
Magallean...
First and last...
Boaring and loooooonng, till tears...
Princess Marina :-(

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-04-20 | 01:34:58

It seems like no matter how much time passes, the 16-day projection doesn't get any closer to the finish.

http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/entries/sisyphus.html

Post by pmangino | 2019-04-24 | 16:01:20

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-05-14 | 18:48:22

:-( Full pack for Leg 2 is quite expensive. I'll probably do it on credits, or not at all. I didn't expect it to cost so much as Category 4.

It looks like they've renamed the options for Leg 2... Can someone do a translation? I assume they're the same things as usual with different names. The Parrot is the Radio, and the Capstain is the winches... And of course the polish is the polish... But which sails translate to Foils, Heavy, Light, and C0?

Post by mak08 | 2019-05-14 | 20:48:46

Mapping by sequence and price:

The first options list is from Normandy Channel Race which is also category 4.

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-05-14 | 22:02:23

Thanks!

BTW... Did they change the pricing model? Is it partly based on how soon you purchase the full pack now? I could have sworn I looked at one of those races a few days ago and saw a lower price than I'm seeing now... but I chose to not pay for it at the time. Now both races look very expensive. (14.99 US on the computer, 13.99 US on the iPhone).

Frustrating... I like races like Normandy, and will usually buy the full pack so that I can go all-out with piles of waypoints, etc... And I did well enough in Magellan 1 that I'd like to give it a go for the overall... but I'm a lot more content to spend 8.99 for a full pack than 13.99.

Post by zezo | 2019-05-15 | 08:27:34

Yes, there was an early bird discount (10 eur instead of 15) for a while.

It said 70% off instead of 40. Thought they were trying a new pricing model to get more paying customers back, but no.

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-05-15 | 13:34:26

I wonder when the early bird discount ends... 7 days before the start? 6? It would have been nice to know that the original price was going to expire. I might pay for Normandy, but I think I'll do Magellan Leg 2 on credits.

Post by burtsonion | 2019-06-30 | 11:14:21

*CENSORED*

Post by zezo | 2019-05-15 | 12:04:31

The polars are still the same, as are the separate sail names. Just the option names have changed.

They are also quite misleading. You would expect that a foresail and flying jib would add to upwind performance, not to light wind and reaching conditions, but at lest the option descriptions are correct (left intact from Light/Reaching sail)

Post by WaterHammer | 2019-05-21 | 08:47:31

And also the studding sails look like not very suitable for winds higher than 11 knots, which is just where the foils kick in.

Post by WaterHammer | 2019-05-21 | 08:48:38

Cvetan, would it be a big issue to add 200% and 400% zoom levels for the Magellan race? Makes the black dots more easily discernable.

Post by k1w1 | 2019-05-21 | 20:15:22

Yes, would be great if you could. Old men like me going blind. 🤪

Post by JohnT | 2019-05-22 | 07:41:29

Gets my vote too:)

Post by DonJuan21 | 2019-05-23 | 01:18:07

I concur, These boats are so slow the course change marks just form a solid black line, even at 100%.

Post by Alex Wind | 2019-05-24 | 20:36:44

Today zezo told me "make a U turn soon as possible" ha ha ha ha :D :D :D

Post by Tarahumara_POR | 2019-06-18 | 13:47:36

Hi guys?
In Magellan 4th leg any hidden gates apart from the one showing? clear that we need to enter through Punta Arenas (and not backtrack ;) ).. apart of that any other gates in the Fiords?
Cheers

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-06-18 | 14:56:17

Interesting... The map in the dashboard shows three hidden gates. One goes between Puerto Zenteno and Puerto Percy. The second goes between Puerto del Hambre and Isla Dawson, forcing you to go North of Isla Dawson. Looking at a real life map, it seems that going South (and missing the gate) would be possible... but in the game interface, the South passage is closed anyway. So I think those gates are irrelevant within the game.

The third hidden gate is strange. It starts at the southern tip of the landmass containing Puerto del Hambre, and it goes all the way across Isla Clarence... and... halfway across the passage on the South side of Isla Clarence. So... it seems you could go South of Isla Clarence if you wanted to... but you'd have to stay on the north side of that southern passage to pass through the gate.

I doubt that's intentional. The question is... Does VR have the south end of that gate in the wrong place? Or is it correct and just showing wrong in the Dashboard map? Or is it "correct within the game" (meaning that it's on the south side of that passage in the game, and the game is off from the real map)? At these extreme South lattitudes, some weird things can happen in how the cartography is shown. It's an important question because going South of Isla Clarence could be a good move in some weather patterns.

There aren't any more after that, and it looks like there are a few gaps in the islands beyond that point, so there would be a few other places where you could bail out from the main channel. It should be very interesting to see which path works best. The Zezo router will have a hell of a time trying to figure it out.

If we wind up needing to go upwind in a tight channel, it might take a long time.

Post by Tarahumara_POR | 2019-06-18 | 16:05:41

You made my point ... with 65TWA upwind will be interesting gaining ground... especially with the precision of this VR near land and coast. IMO I will prefer to get out of the fiords ASAP.

Post by zezo | 2019-06-18 | 16:16:42

The third gate could well be on the coast in the game chart. Hard to tel without a way to get the exact cursor position.

The router will be mostly useless in the narrow part of the strait after the third gate.

Post by mak08 | 2019-06-18 | 18:39:36

The dashboard displays the marks with the correct positions provided by the game server, but on a different map. The marks now have position tooltips (initially the stbd position was displayed on the port mark and vice versa but that is fixed).

It is very clear that the VR map differs from Google Maps - for example, there's an island just off Cap Tarf (Carthage) which is *not* on Google Maps.

You can find the mark positions on the VR map using a waypoint. Whenever I checked, the marks were on land w.r.t the VR map as expected (I even tried to pass behind a mark with my boat and ran aground). It's still another question if the game UI and server agree, but we have reason to doubt.

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-06-18 | 21:56:45

Good point. I just set a waypoint at the coordinates of the south side of that third gate, using the coordinates shown in the dashboard map. In the game interface, those coordinates are on land on the south side of that channel. So the gate makes sense within the game's cartography, and the discrepancy is because the game's cartography doesn't match Google Earth.

So it is safe to go south of Isla Clarence. I think there are two more "early exit" options beyond that one. They all would involve more distance, but could be worthwhile if they allow us to avoid short tacking in a tight channel at TWA 65.

Probably worthwhile to check the dashboard map again after the leaders pass Gate 1, just in case VR adjusts something.

Post by tabasco2 | 2019-06-25 | 01:17:17

Magellan 4

Is it real that we should cross the Strait of Magellan with these boats? In general it blows wind from the east, so in narrow areas it would be impossible to pass with the head wind. Any ideas?. In narrow areas we will have a bottleneck of boats. :)

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-06-25 | 03:58:48

Yes, we really need to do it (or not do the race).

Post by hipolou2 | 2019-06-25 | 05:14:51

passer par le cap Horn! qu'est ce qui nous en emp�che? d 'ailleurs c est le choix pris sur la carte zezo

Post by toxcct | 2019-06-25 | 14:32:05

le routeur zezo ne connait rien des checkpoints cach�s qui permettent de valider ou non notre trajectoire sur VR...

Post by tabasco2 | 2019-06-25 | 01:17:19

we are going to do it!! :) :)

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-06-25 | 21:35:56

It looks like we have two threads going... As shown in the other thread, the answer appears to have changed. Originally, it was mandatory to go through the Strait. Now, going around the Horn might be legal. It is not clear. I hope they will make it clear soon. I hate it when they are unclear about the course options.

Post by burtsonion | 2019-06-30 | 11:16:43

*CENSORED*

Post by burtsonion | 2019-06-30 | 11:49:30

*CENSORED*

Post by Solveig IV VSC | 2019-06-30 | 12:59:49

Dear burtsonion,

please correct your language and state whatever you have to say in an at least modestly polite form - as everyone else does in this forum.

Thank You!

Post by DonJuan21 | 2019-06-30 | 17:56:47

I don't even know what your point is? What are you saying in English please.

Post by etrille17 | 2019-06-30 | 13:42:52

Quel incorrection Vous meriteriez d'etre exclu du jeu et du forum

Post by DonJuan21 | 2019-06-30 | 17:51:44

Are you noticing the second gate is out in the water and you sail too close to Cabo San Vicente and miss it. That's crap. If they are going to make hidden gates at least put them on land so you can't miss them.

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-06-30 | 17:53:56

It's actually on the far side of the channel, in the game. It looks like it's in the middle of the channel in the dashboard, but that's a rendering issue. See the discussion back on June 18 above.

Post by DonJuan21 | 2019-06-30 | 18:27:57

You guys were talking about the southern end of gate 4, right? It shows to be in the middle of the channel in google maps but you think its a cartography issue with these latitudes.

I talking the southern end of the second gate. Sailors are already cutting that corner tight and missing the gate. It's an issue now.

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-06-30 | 19:45:54

Oh! I hadn't checked the southern end of Gate 2. Probably the same thing. My impression is that in these southern latitudes, there are some discrepancies between the game's cartography and reality... but the dashboard superimposes the waypoints onto a real Google map.

If you check the coordinates of the gate in the Dashboard, and then set a waypoint at those coordinates in the game, I'm guessing you'll find that it's actually on land in the game. So... within the game, the gate coordinates and visual cartography are consistent... and they happen to be identically inconsistent from the real world as depicted in the dashboard's google map.

But... you can't check that without a waypoint, which you can't do without altering course unless you're already sailing on waypoints. (I checked the southern end of gate 4 before the start)

Post by DonJuan21 | 2019-06-30 | 20:56:21

No need to check southern end of gate 2. One of our team cut it close and missed it. It's definitely out in the water in VR game itself.

Post by turb | 2019-06-30 | 19:45:51

Hello,

I've read YMSA's post of 2019-06-18 | 21:56:45 -> is going south of Isla Clarence still safe? Not sure I want to tack/gybe all the way on the North side of Isla Clarence...

Thank you !

Post by YourMomSA | 2019-06-30 | 19:54:19

Yes, as far as I can tell. (But I don't work for VR, so please don't blame me if the analysis is wrong).

Post by etrille17 | 2019-07-01 | 07:28:21

J'esp�re que VR mettra une p�nalit� pour les marins qui n'ont pas suivi le parcours historique comme je l'ai eu il y a quelque temps.

Post by toxcct | 2019-07-01 | 09:08:11

Lol. Ils ont ouvert le parcours le sud en y pla�ant des portes cach�es.
Pourquoi donc vouloir p�naliser ceux qui prennent le risque de se rallonger de 250 Milles ?!

En plus, regardez o� se trouve la "Escort Frigate"... vous savez, ce truc immonde qu'ils nous ont invent� pour r�cup�rer encore un peu plus de thunes pour ceux qui se sont �chou�s et ne peuvent plus sortir de l'orni�re.
Bon ben je vous le donne en mille : AU SUD !

Post by Dogzilla | 2019-07-01 | 11:53:29

J'ai beaucoup de respect pour ceux qui sont pass�s par le d�troit sans Full Pack et VIP.
Pour ma part, �a aurait �t� trop compliqu� � g�rer (ma femme se serait mutin�e).

@Etrille17 oublie le cot� course, retiens l'aventure et la fiert� d'�tre pass� par l�.

Post by Dogzilla | 2019-07-01 | 11:57:14

I have a lot of respect for those who have crossed the Strait without Full Pack and VIP.
For my part, it would have been too complicated to manage (my wife would have mutinied).

@ Etrille17 forget it's a race, remember the adventure and the pride of being there.

Post by Dogzilla | 2019-07-01 | 11:55:48

Sur les �tapes pr�c�dentes de la Magellan, nous avons reli� les m�mes points de d�part et d'arriv�e que Magellan mais on a pas forc�ment suivi la m�me route.

Post by Dogzilla | 2019-07-01 | 11:57:54

On the previous stages of the Magellan, we connected the same starting and finishing points as Magellan but we did not necessarily follow the same route.

Post by etrille17 | 2019-07-01 | 15:36:09

D'accord mais Vr a oubli� de nous avertir.Peu importe le r�sultat mais je me serai amuser.Que signifie ces portes cach�es qui deviennent presque obligatoire?A+

Post by pomale | 2019-07-01 | 18:08:30

VR Wind forecast is finest crap!

Zezo gives me about 48 h to go through Magellan Strait in the classic way, VR WP give results oscillating from 21 h to 168+ h for a portion of it. I prefer to trust in zezo. This reminds me to make another small donation for his great work.

BTW, there are some inwater gate boundaries for players who left the classical strait to the south. It�s just another bad point for VR as we are used to.see too often.