Zezo forum:

Post by kewcom | 2017-12-28 | 19:36:22

Are there any waypoints/marks we have to pass en-route to Hong Kong....could we sail around the west cost of Australia?

69 Comments

Post by zezo | 2017-12-28 | 19:44:11

We can. It's unlikely to be the winning route, but someone should open a support question on VR forum/support site so they can fix it tomorrow.

It seems that no sane unionized person in France is going to do support/development over the holidays.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-28 | 22:25:58

I'm looking at the west route as well. Problem is I can't route past Indonesia with only one destination. You can put a waypoint in between the Indonesia's or between Indonesia and Australia, but that's as far as it goes for now.

With multiple waypoints for routing it would really be possible to compare west and east and maybe take an educated guess west.

There are at present no waypoint by VR so it is allowed ;)

Post by zezo | 2017-12-29 | 17:01:07

First, there is a limit in the router at 110E which you can disable by clicking "Ignore gates" as usual.

There is a very slim chance for Eastern route to win, but no way to tell it on a 10-day forecast. Weather around Indonesia, both south and north side is quite unpredictable.

Post by zezo | 2017-12-29 | 17:22:34

Another possibility is passing east of Australia but west of Papua.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-29 | 17:48:32

I know, but once I get closed, the router won't go in between the land masses, so I was hoping for the option to 'set waypoints' in addition to 'set as destination' on the charts

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2017-12-29 | 17:35:13

Sail with real weather and route, compete with real VOR boats...... blaa blaa blaa.

This discussion should not happen at all. In real VOR there are several marks to leave to port:
. Santa Ana Island 10�50.000 S 162�28.200 E
. Dai Island 07�53.300 S 160�37.150 E
. Philippines Waypoint 18�37.388 N 121�09.287 E

But in the excellence of "Super" and his team who apparently are too lazy to code 3 marks in to the best virtual sailing game the have decided not to do so. Same thing happened in Leg 3 when they were too lazy to program the Ice Exclusion Zone. I am sure it is a matter of laziness as it can not be a matter of incompetence. And I wonder how the organizers of Volvo Ocean Race allow the owner of virtualregatta to run his own private regattas under the Volvo brand.

Post by Rostef | 2017-12-29 | 17:59:02

But we have 4kn minimum windspeed, so for us, this waypoints to keep us away from days in no wind are less important. :-)

Post by Trailaspress | 2017-12-29 | 17:48:46

Thats true Lazy Hiker, after this update interface VR feature all the good things are gone, last edition was more realist, this VR guys are loosing the essence of offshore races, previously VOR we had gifts each leg, 24h record and better news coverage.
In fact they just are focus in the money they can make, with this stupid cards system implanted we expend more money.....

About the route is always a option but I think even the best router program can't say what will be the best option.

Post by WoKeN | 2017-12-29 | 18:29:51

VR used the IEZ before in VOR years ago I remember.

VR and customer satisfaction is an xymoron...

Post by RastaSLO | 2017-12-29 | 18:31:35

Hi Zezo. Is it by any chance possible to add "ignore land" under right-click options? Seems small islands are making trouble for the router (Solomon, west Indonesia islands). "Human" eye could easily check if route between islands could be faster.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-29 | 18:34:47

better would be to have the option to add some waypoint in addition to desitination.

Otherwise, zezo would suggest to load you boat on a road train to Darwin ;)

Post by zezo | 2017-12-29 | 19:13:05

Solomon islands look OK. Indonesia is probably OK too, but too far and the track stops short of the destination.

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-29 | 19:27:39

yeah, but is not going further north now, whatever straight you want to pass through. I guess the waypoint are difficult tot make.

wp1 as destination is existing functionality, but than you should be able to route from wp1 with the approprate timeshift to the next destination and so on.

smal other question, would it be possible to add the arrival time at desination? Now you must estimate the last part yourself in whatever way (linear interpolation with last speed is what I usually use).

Post by Ursus Maritimus | 2017-12-29 | 18:42:56

Hello Mike,

Thanks for your message.
There are no buoys on this leg, you are free to sail as you please, provided you make it to the finish line of course.

Sincerely,

Jessica (Virtual Regatta Offshore)

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2017-12-29 | 20:29:59

This time I will sail the real route and will not pay anything to virtualregatta. I would have paid for the full option if the route would have been real.

So this leg no sailing home.

Post by Commandant Mitchell | 2017-12-30 | 13:44:52

I have some difficulties to understand .... today the waypoint coral sea, says arrival January 6th (to this point)

The best road with 16 days option to Hong Kong recommends to go by the west....but indicates that January 6th boats should be located.........in the south of Australia ??

It's not consistent in my opinion !

it leaves plenty of time to heading west after the Coral Sea waypoint to pass under the papua and join a possible winning route by the west.

but after all...we are only December 30 :)

Post by zezo | 2017-12-30 | 13:55:11

The router can't see beyond the end of the forecast.

It's entirely possible that in 2 weeks you will be closer to Hong Kong if you start West.

But then there are 7-8 days of beating upwind from Jakarta to Hong Kong, while on the East route you can expect downwind conditions with two times the speed.

Post by LJadra | 2017-12-30 | 14:50:42

I like the route without any buoys/waypoints. It is more interesting, more waypoints means less options and more of drag race. And since we are racing virtual boats is no need for extra safety like pirats or traffic exclusion zone etc.

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2017-12-30 | 18:31:45

But nothing to do with the Volvo Ocean Race.

Post by LJadra | 2017-12-31 | 10:00:44

The idiotic thing is 4 kt min wind speed. This is a real route changer.

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2017-12-31 | 15:30:41

Yes that is one in a long list of idiotic things.

Post by huditojo | 2017-12-31 | 17:24:11

Hello Cvetan,
I'm struggling to find a route to Indonesia;South Philiphines or even Northwest Philiphines or west Papua New Guinea.
The problem is if I tick Ignore gates and Timeshift and set Hong Kong as final destination, the route stops at 333H.
If I do the same for other destinations mentioned above, the route stops at 237H (Indonesia) and at 171H (West Papua New Guinea).
Does this means that there is no other possibility of route than EAST???
Does this means that we're gonna have another herd race???(Hope not)
I hope you can help.

Post by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 17:55:43

It's a consequence of natural weather patterns.

You have the trade winds (called that way for a reason)

Prevailing direction is East, so a route West of any land mass, be it Papua or Kalimantan, is going to be leeward and hence in a wind shadow.

So the real VOR route is drawn there for a reason. All viable options are East of Papua New Guinea.

The big quiestion is how far East (and how far North afterwards), and that depends on the current weather forecast.

Personally, I'll route for gain North in the first 2-3 days and then decide which way to go around the Solomon islands.

Post by huditojo | 2017-12-31 | 20:42:11

Ye,thanks...a west route will be a lucky shot...have a nice 2018

Post by zezo | 2017-12-31 | 20:44:43

Yep, exactly. It could win. In 1 of 100 days or so.

Happy New Year!

Post by Lasse | 2018-01-01 | 03:29:00

Happy new year everybody!!

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2018-01-01 | 06:10:20

Happy New Year to all !

I wonder - as there are nowadays so many subgroups in the VVOR game (no money, with money, only virtual money, only foils, you name it) - how could I start a new group named puritanistic Volvo Ocean Race. I mean a group where we would have the same route and the same winds and the same boats as the real Volvo Ocean Race has.

Aah, sorry, thought it would be a better year but its the same old same old.

Post by WoKeN | 2018-01-01 | 16:24:22

next subgroup is for those who only sail backwards...

happy new year y'all

Post by marcusbelgicus | 2018-01-01 | 15:01:24

Happy New Year everyone !

Yes, I would think that taking west has the same amount of chance of success than taking the direct route close to the African coast from Lisbonne to The Cape. It is not impossible that the winning route is taking North of Taiwan....

Post by Stuart C | 2018-01-03 | 20:26:39

Has anyone else gone West? I have, not for any particular reason other than I can't be bothered playing follow the leader. But no other boats are showing up, would be nice to have some company....

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-03 | 20:35:29

KLM2235 is in the west route, have fun.

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-03 | 21:00:29

Post by Stuart C | 2018-01-03 | 21:18:34

Thanks Trailaspress, added you boat, we are neck and neck for now. My boat is Dr Contractor. Guess we can always jump on the "Frigate" if it goes bad...

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-04 | 15:13:07

Nice to meet you Stuart, be patient after Perth your way will be in a good shape to fight for the glory.

Post by nsp | 2018-01-03 | 21:28:45

Well...if suddenlly you don't see KLM don't jump in a hurry to frigate..most probably he went into his favourite mode...stealthing... check first...lol

Post by KLM2235 | 2018-01-04 | 19:16:56

Gratuitous assertion, stealth is not my favorite mode at all
On the contrary, i would be happy to see it disappear

Considering lack of marks, i just wanted to try something different by sailing western route
Just for fun :-)

It remains a game after all ...

Best wishes for 2018

Post by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 17:58:52

Interesting, the route moved a bit East by itself now, even with the 4 kt wind limit.

Post by nsp | 2018-01-04 | 18:17:40

Indeed...your little bit is almost 400 miles :)))

Meanwhile westbound guys are going to get a low pressure front in the chin...:S

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-04 | 19:09:27

Holy shit.....this new grip is opening to many windows, leaders are to tight, even YourMom is in Gosht mode, I never see that in the past....keep pushing guys...

Post by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 19:28:42

YourMom gybed a bit late, covering the group coming from East.

Edit: Or did not gybe and kept on starboard with Raketa &co

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-04 | 19:35:55

I think hi gybed to early yesterday, but is my humble opinion, thanks for your support and tools Mr Cvetan the community is in indebted to you.

Post by LJadra | 2018-01-04 | 19:39:34

Hmmm... Its time to flip a coin :)

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-04 | 19:42:33

ahahah, I will do for sure, but let me finish a leg in the first 50th, to confirm that zezo.org works fine.
ahahahahahahah

Post by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 19:42:56

YourMom gybed a bit late, covering the group coming from East.

Edit: Or did not gybe and kept on starboard with Raketa &co

Which would suggest routing East of the Solomon Islands.

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2018-01-04 | 20:00:42

He went East, I was following him before he went invisible

Post by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 20:46:33

Makes sense when you look at the last GRIB.

I don't like making big decisions based on single model run, but it gives hope that the classic route can win even with the 4 kt minimum, much like the Atlantic.

Edit: And now we have a split. Half of the fleet is going that way.

I should add (back) some kind of swarm view now ;-)

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-04 | 22:01:43

Thats mean you no trust in zezo?

Post by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 22:05:07

The router is only as good as the forecast, so the question is do you trust each and every NOAA GRIB.

Post by Trailaspress | 2018-01-04 | 22:53:04

ahahhaha was a joke, zezo is good, NOA fake.

Post by LJadra | 2018-01-04 | 21:54:01

When you look at the long term forecast it looks like a piece of chart is missing.
Below of the eastern route north of Solomons and Papua there is no isochrones?

Post by LumbaSLO | 2018-01-04 | 21:56:28

It's been like that since the start of the leg...cause the routing is showing only the best option at the moment.

Post by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 22:03:28

There is a huge high pressure area between the two possible routes, that is to be avoided at all cost.

The router won't go in the center of it, no matter what. Even if you aim for the center it will find a sideways route.

Post by LJadra | 2018-01-05 | 19:45:13

Actually the model is predicting a rain clouds in that area, creating some rotation in wind direction.
So I think that for long term router is using less calculation points and therefore can`t calculate path through and leaves empty space (no isochrones).
Is it possible that GFS 12Z creates grib files with more data included (clouds etc.) than other results?

Post by chelonia | 2018-01-04 | 22:01:09

Happy New Year everyone!

Just noticed that the real boats have different actual weather, 17kt of wind vs 12kt at same area in the game.

I was under the assumption that the real weather conditions were also in real time projected in the game?

West group seems to be in a bit of trouble since conditions changed around the Solomon ... for now

Post by zezo | 2018-01-04 | 22:17:13

GFS is a model. Based on real-world observations, and quite good in parts of the world with a lot of observing stations, but it's not "real weather"

Post by chelonia | 2018-01-04 | 22:28:28

Thanks Cvetan!

Post by zezo | 2018-01-05 | 21:51:11

@LJadra people say that 0h and 12h GFS are more accurate indeed, because of the weather balloons and such. But that may also depend on which part of the world you are talking about.

Post by NickOlson | 2018-01-05 | 22:21:57

The 00z and 12z model runs do have more data in the initial conditions file, I think the 06 and 18 also have less layers in the model run.
I have a question for you Cvetan...

When I hover over update time/progress on the bottom left. I only see 162hours of gribs loaded. This is well after update time, at the moment on the 12z run it is hours after update. I note this is approx 7 days. Just wondering if you can explain this. I have a few assumptions but easier to ask.

Also have you ever run your router with different models? The GFS is doing something different to some others at the moment in my part of the world, they will all come back in to alignment at some stage.

Post by zezo | 2018-01-05 | 22:28:55

The stamp comes from a file which is generated by a script somewhere along the way and then renamed by another script. Thought I have fixed it after the introduction of VR3, but looks like I haven't. As long as it does not have a "+" in it the update process should be complete.

Other models would be interesting to try, but ... you know.

Post by NickOlson | 2018-01-05 | 22:33:07

ok great. thankyou.

Post by LJadra | 2018-01-05 | 23:35:31

Thanks.

I don`t like GFS as model, ECMWF is much better, but the game runs on GFS. For the long term you don`t need router for "second check". It would be great, but too much for the server I suppose?

Post by zezo | 2018-01-05 | 23:42:26

No problem for the server at all, but access to ECMWF data is qiute expensive. Tens of thousands per year.

Post by NickOlson | 2018-01-05 | 23:43:10

Ecmwf is about 200k euro per year to be able to distribute it.

Post by zezo | 2018-01-06 | 00:15:05

I was going to write hundreds, but it might be possible to get access to 10mUV layer only, with a new customer/small business discount for a bit less.

Post by NickOlson | 2018-01-06 | 00:21:12

true, that is max charge, then they charge you for data delivery:)

Post by LJadra | 2018-01-06 | 01:45:09

OK, its too much any way:(
Is there any other free model available?
But I suppose nobody allows use of their GRIB files on a site like this.

Post by mak08 | 2018-01-06 | 01:57:13

There is the OpenData service from DWD (Deutscher Wetter Dienst) but the forecasts only cover 180h at 00/12 and 120h at 06/18.

Post by zezo | 2018-01-06 | 09:21:22

Thanks. I'll take a look.

Post by nsp | 2018-01-06 | 15:46:04

you have Squid too...mehhhhhh, it's just complicate things a lot and to a unecessary level