Zezo forum:

Post by Frogmuff | 2020-09-18 | 18:07:50

what is the cost in speed and time when tacking or jibing? do winches improve this? if so, by how much? Frog...

21 Comments

Post by GeGaX | 2020-09-18 | 18:23:46

Hi Frogmuff 😉,
With Pro Winch : 75sec at 50% of Boat Speed.
Without Pro Winch : 300sec at 50% of Boat Speed.
(Also valid for a sails change)

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-09-18 | 19:03:31

If multiple relevant maneuvers occur in the same time period, the compound each other rather than extending the time. Most common scenario would be a tack or gybe simultaneously with a sail change. So you do 25% speed for the overlapping time. Which sounds really bad, but is better than doing 50% for double the time.

Post by karriv | 2020-09-27 | 14:31:57

Haven't been racing for a while, is the situation with sail change penalties still what I recall it used to be, with autosails you get the penalty for enabling it but not for the sail changes itself?

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-09-27 | 14:54:54

No. That was fixed. The penalties are just for the sailchanges and tacks/gybes. It also doesn't apply the penalty when you choose your current sail to kill autosails, as long as it's the sail you were already using.

But... if you're running full pack, autosails are turned on permanently and cannot be turned off.

Post by karriv | 2020-09-27 | 16:40:43

OK, thanks. Better that way, it's logical.

Post by turtle 1663 | 2020-09-27 | 21:55:10

I think they can be turned off with full pack i.e. when you select a different sail with autosails on it will ask you if you want to turn off autosails. I don�t think you will have to choose that different sail. Can�t try now because not using full pack

Post by BooBill | 2020-09-28 | 04:00:55

If you have the full pack you can not turn auto sails off or select a different sail then the one they select for you. It's all grey out.

Post by turtle 1663 | 2020-09-28 | 06:03:27

Your right BB, just checked in NY-SF. Did they change it, I thought it worked like that before. Thanks

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-09-28 | 16:07:17

It worked that way up until roughly 6 months ago. Autosails were something you could turn on with full pack in 12-hour increments like you could with cards, but without a card cost. So the only impact of the full pack was to make the autosails free. For some reason, they decided it would be better for full pack to have autosails simply "always on". There's a thread in the VR forum where a bunch of users were unhappy about it. Mostly in French so I'm not sure exactly what was said, but a quick skim gives you the gist of it.

Post by turtle 1663 | 2020-09-28 | 19:29:44

Yeah I can see why because under certain conditions auto sails kept switching between two specific sails (same speed). and/or with a small course change you would not have done knowing sails would change. Without is higher cost, but more control and you have to stay on top of it and let it be part of your routine. Thanks

Post by BooBill | 2020-09-28 | 19:17:56

I have noticed that several top sailors never have autosails (Tip & Buddha for instance). Presumably doing every race on credits, which presumably they have to purchase, just so they have that control.

I've had times I wished I didn't have it, but I've more often lost significant paces because I forgot to set Autosails when on credits.

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-09-28 | 20:13:50

I definitely prefer to sail without autosails whenever there's a risk of inadvertent extra sailchanges. But sometimes it's a clean rise or drop in windspeed at an angle where there's no risk so autosails are fine. And actually, the game has a threshold built in that the new sail's speed must be faster than the existing sail's speed by more than a certain amount before it'll do the change... Something like 0.04%? I can't remember. Someone looked it up at some point. It's enough that the game doesn't usually flip back and forth repetitively so you usually can actually trust the autosails.

There are definitely cases where it's better to have them off, but the gains from doing it right are usually very small, and the losses if you botch it (ie, fall asleep, get occupied with work or family stuff, or just plain forget) and sail with the wrong sail for a while are worse.

Post by turtle 1663 | 2020-09-29 | 06:32:29

Thanks, good to know that there is a % differentiating algo build in.

Post by Hardtack | 2020-09-29 | 08:53:22

The threshold can be found in the server message that also contains the polars data. There are actually two:
- autoSailChangeTolerance: 0.3% (1.003)
- badSailTolerance : 1% (1.01)
I think the first one applies, but I'm not completely sure.

Btw, when you're sailing in the tolerance zone using autoSail, the server always applies the faster sail speed (without actually changing the sail), which can give you a very small advantage over manual sail selection.

Post by YourMomSA | 2020-09-29 | 20:29:11

Thanks! That BTW is surprising. It makes me less averse to autosails, as it narrows the scenarios where it would be preferable to not use them even more, while the risks of not using them remain high.

I think the 1.003 is the threshold for the change to occur, whereas the 1.01 is the threshold for the message to be issued. Which means the message should never occur when using autosails.

Post by BooBill | 2020-09-29 | 20:49:11

I'll give you a real example of when the autosails can hurt, really hurt.

In the Atlantic record, I started a teammate's boat and sailed it for the first day, while he was, well sailing. He had the Full Pack and I was running fully optioned on credits. Two boats, starting simulatiously, on side by side computers with each manouver matched within seconds.

I set waypoints to skirt two islands in Nantucket. My boat passsed through, and if there was a wrong sail warning I didn't notice it. Coming out he was half a mile behind me. When I looked at the log, he'd done 3 sail changes in 20 minutes.

In a record run that wasn't that big a deal and I obviously was more upset about it than he was. Had that been a tight fleet race though, that could have been more than 100 places.

Post by turtle 1663 | 2020-09-30 | 04:39:57

So was he on Auto Sails and yourself on Manual?

Post by BooBill | 2020-09-30 | 09:39:56

Yes. His couldn't be turned off, because he had the Full Pack.

Post by turtle 1663 | 2020-09-30 | 12:24:26

Makes you think eh?! No doubt that most of the usual suspects are also good sailors in real life but with this game it certainly gives you an edge being smart in terms of programming and internet/computer stuff. I�m getting old I guess :-)

Post by Lazy_Hikers_Finland | 2020-10-04 | 12:12:21

I remember that it was illegal to operate other peoples boats. Maybe that has changed and the real winners are the teams behind great names - 24/7 is is tiresome without a team.

Post by BooBill | 2020-10-04 | 19:34:48

You made me read the T&C again. You are right, that would appear to be a violation of Article 4. I will inform my friend that he must disqualify himself, although the rules would indicate a warning for first offense.

That said, I'm pretty sure some of the top teams do operate on a watch system. That would clearly gain you an advantage, both in the game and your personal life. In our situation it was not done to gain an advantage, but to allow someone to participate who otherwise couldn't because of a personal commitment.