Zezo forum:

Post by toxcct | 2020-10-22 | 12:07:12

Hi guys,

Some of you may have spotted that VR silently updated their 'mono/imoca_60_new' polars, so that every sails have slight changes in the behavior.

The new raw polars data have been gathered and integrated into the Polars Chart app.
Consequently, the Polars Generator app is also updated accordingly.

For any of you who used the generator to prepare their race with a third party router, I highly advise to download the data with the freshly updated values.

Good luck, and good race all
toxcct

35 Comments

Post by UUnet | 2020-10-22 | 17:34:24

Thx toxcct ;)

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2020-11-05 | 17:57:01

Both version doesn't seems to be different

Post by toxcct | 2020-11-05 | 22:17:38

They are, if you compare the raw polar data, but from very tiny values.

They come identical when checking the "interpolate values" checkbox, which is odd, but yet I could not find enough time to investigate on this...

Post by Hardtack | 2020-11-05 | 22:27:21

The top speed of the old polars was 26.06 and the new top speed is 23.28 (yes, it got slower). The most prominent changes are in the downwind and/or strong wind area, where the 'wrong' sail degrades much more in the new polars.

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2020-11-06 | 13:49:41

Thanks, yes I saw that the ones are slower in downwind above 30 knots.

Post by Herve | 2020-11-06 | 18:05:39

Je ai pris le Full Pack mais pas le pack VIP.
Quel est l'int�r�t du pack VIP?
Si on peut trouver les polaires pour le VG 2020 sur toxcct et si elles sont bien identiques, le pack VIP n'apporte pas grand choix de plus. Ou est ce que je me trompe?
Pouvez vous me confirmer que les polaires de toxcct sont bien identiques � celle de VR ?

Post by toxcct | 2020-11-06 | 22:02:54

Je confirme, puisque je les r�cup�re directement sur leur site.
Pour le reste, �a a d�j� �t� discut� ici, et ne naviguant pas sur VR depuis plus d'un an, je pr�f�re laisser la r�ponse � d'autres.

PS: Le forum zezo est plut�t anglophone. Si vous souhaitez �tre compris de tous, essayez plut�t l'anglais ;)

Post by Blue Knight | 2020-11-06 | 22:02:21

Hello toxcct,

First of all thanks for all your work on the polars.

The problem with the Imoca 60 polar is : it did not match with the Virtual Regatta interface, which indicates a speed boat higher than with the Imoca 60 polar.

Is there a way to update that Imoca 60 polar before the race starts on Sunday ? (Anyone with a VIP account can do it !)

Bye

Brice

Post by toxcct | 2020-11-06 | 22:07:37

As far as I know, the polars I gathered from VR are still the correct ones...

Do you have some really big discrepencies, or you only observe "rounding" issues, which could be fine, if you notice that the speeds are actually correct in VR Dashboard... ?

Post by Blue Knight | 2020-11-07 | 08:11:13

Hello,

For example, as comparison of the two TWS 15.4 (that I make with VR DashBoard) & 16 (generated by the Imoca 60 polar :

TWA TWS--> 15.4 TWS--> 16
20 4.3 0.512
30 6.4 6.79
40 9.3 10.231
50 11 11.344
60 12.1 12.056
70 13.4 12.738
80 15.2 14.072

This comparison (that i could continue) does not show the same behaviour from the evolution of boat speed. I make "15.4" because I guess the only way to construct the file is to connect at the dashboard, and to pick each boat speed on each TWA, for the actual TWS when we are connected. Long and boring... I make also 14.1 this morning.

I wonder why nobody (?) has noticed these differences.

28 hours to go...

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2020-11-07 | 08:56:49

I saw this too. This morning from the game UI, 15 knots wind, 135� TWA speed was 15.5 knots while polar would have been 15.2. I don't think this is because of rounding. They seems to have change the polar to new ones. The name in the the dashboard logs is mono/imoca_60_foils I don't know if it was the case before.

Post by zezo | 2020-11-07 | 09:30:43

It seems that the polars have changed few days ago.

- "label": "mono/imoca_60_new",
+ "label": "mono/imoca_60_foils",
...
- "maxSpeed": 23.28,
+ "maxSpeed": 22.18,

Post by M63 | 2020-11-07 | 10:03:31

Yes, the imoca 60 polars have been modified by VR for the VG and I cannot contact Nicolas.

Post by NtsiabakaParadize | 2020-11-07 | 15:54:29

23.28 knots, what a joke, might as well rename to Class40

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2020-11-07 | 11:41:39

Post by Ultimate Victory | 2020-11-07 | 12:12:44

I've tried to generate my own polar for Adrena with the latest imoca_60_foils but I'm getting an error : "TypeError: Cannot read property 'en' of undefined".
I've pasted the whole json document returned by the dashboard { "@class": ".LogEventResponse", ... }
Using only the polar object returned the same error.
Any idea on how to fix this ?

Thx

EDIT => I found the issue. @toxcct this is because they change the names of the sails and it's failing in your code when you try to map the sailname to the localized value.

Post by koja | 2020-11-07 | 13:01:26

Yes I concur, I had to capitalize every sail names (for instance: "name": "JIB").
Also, for interpolating missing values I had to change the second line manually: "label":"mono/imoca_60_new" (it was "label": "mono/imoca_60_foils")

Post by Big LuD | 2020-11-07 | 14:38:33

hi koja,
Did you succeed ? cause i block at "TypeError: Cannot read property 'en' of undefined", even if I capitalize every sail name...

Thx

Post by toxcct | 2020-11-07 | 17:45:44

not all sail names needed capitalization only.
But now the generator is up to date with the new "Imoca 60 (Foils)", you should now worry about this anymore.

Post by Big LuD | 2020-11-07 | 20:29:38

Yeah i saw that, thanks a lot !

Post by saltante | 2020-11-07 | 14:36:24

Hi; VR interface boat speed do not match the speed fron toxcct polars

Post by toxcct | 2020-11-07 | 15:41:39

@ALL :

Sorry for the delay, it seems that you all noticed before me that the raw polars data from VR have changed (not only the file name, but also the speed values).

I updated the polars chart accordingly.

For those of you who want to extract the generated polars for another router, things have been sorted out.
(Just be sure to use the "Imoca 60 (Foils)" boat).

Post by UUnet | 2020-11-07 | 15:46:01

Many Thx ;)

Post by toxcct | 2020-11-07 | 16:55:36

Vincent ? Who is Vincent ? (not me anyway ^^)

Post by UUnet | 2020-11-07 | 17:23:49

pardon Nico ;)

Post by Blue Knight | 2020-11-07 | 16:22:45

Hello toxcct & everyone,

Thank U for that work.

On one hand, I am glad to have analysed previous polars and said here that there was an issue.

On the other, I wonder if VR could, during the race, edit again some new polar... without any warning !

If so, let's be observant to notice any change and to write it down here, for a further update -

- From tox ! ;)

I wish U all a good race.

Brice

Post by toxcct | 2020-11-07 | 16:57:33

As far as I am concerned, I won't be racing the Vend�e Globe this year, so if anyone notice such a change again during the race, please notify me (here, of using the contact form on my website).

Thanks.

Post by saltante | 2020-11-07 | 17:01:04

Thank you toxcct for a quick update of polars.

Post by DeskSailor | 2020-11-07 | 17:35:45

Cheers!

Post by koja | 2020-11-07 | 18:36:52

Thanks a lot for the updates!
Is it just me, or these polars make the boat really slow?
It seems that it would take me 2.5 months to reach the cape of Good Hope.

Post by NtsiabakaParadize | 2020-11-07 | 19:47:06

Basically it is as slow as a next gen Class40

Post by pfilou49 | 2020-11-07 | 20:10:35

vendee globe : I thinh that the polar of ZEZO is not good with the line : http://zezo.org/vg/polars.html?opt=244, but il seems good on the chart

Post by Inicio | 2020-11-16 | 09:21:46

The real ones are already among us.
I have made some small comparison.

Hugo Boss sails at 19 knots right next to a Full Pack on the same heading as it sails at 15 knots.
Our foil polars don't even go as fast as Yes We Cam.

I hope the professionals involved in VR will complain to the organization ...

Or maybe the organization thinks about the frustration of a million customers and they realize that this ridiculousness is bad for business ...

Post by PML | 2020-11-16 | 10:20:59

We have a competitive edges though: our boats are unbreakable.

Post by Hurricane | 2020-11-16 | 13:11:46

Real sailors from the top positions said at their daily interview that they get more wind than the grib forecast.

In this area they are not so much weather mesured value, hard for the forecast model to be close to reality...